news
Forums
history
profile
guestbook
link
advertising
merchandise
contact us
thereggaeboyz
tell a friend
  The Reggae Boyz Forum
  Reggae Boyz Soccer Discussions
  Now That the game is over...the Analysts analize here please! (Page 2)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Now That the game is over...the Analysts analize here please!
youngballa
Member

Posts: 188
From: Queens, NY ,USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 04-12-2006 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for youngballa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shavar:
Tackle on Donovan by Daley was ball.

Dem tackle deh nuh get call much less yellow inna any big league. Ref was joking. That along with the extra time and Daley non penalty makes you wonder.


i was saying the same thing that was pure ball and donovan got triped up the the process. i already pridicted the long Extra time i knew these reff dont rate we likkle island . is the same way dem treat portmore when we play Club america

IP: Logged

Tripeous
Member

Posts: 1937
From: Reston, VA.
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 04-12-2006 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tripeous     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Until we start beating these concacaf teams convincely, don't expect any calls to go our way.


IP: Logged

JahPickney
Member

Posts: 1577
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-12-2006 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JahPickney     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Originally posted by Jahj:
quote:
BTW! the problem with Daley's tackling is perception rather than actual. As the replay showed, he did not foul Donovan when he got the card but his approach was so forceful, it created the impression that he did.

BINGO!

IP: Logged

jamatl
Member

Posts: 2508
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-12-2006 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jamatl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Omar Daley is averages one yellow card per game, which needs to corrected.

[This message has been edited by jamatl (edited 04-12-2006).]

IP: Logged

JahPickney
Member

Posts: 1577
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-12-2006 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JahPickney     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, my view is that Jamaica CONCEDED the midfield almost purposely.

I think it's simplistic to attribute the midfield void to long balls from the back. Some of the midfield positioning appeared deliberately retracted.

IP: Logged

BadRas
Member

Posts: 1295
From:
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 04-12-2006 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BadRas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JahPickney:
Also, my view is that Jamaica CONCEDED the midfield almost purposely.

I think it's simplistic to attribute the midfield void to long balls from the back. Some of the midfield positioning appeared deliberately retracted.


It’s funny yu say that Jahp, cuz here I am thinking the game is so darn simple and we tend to make it more complex and complicated than it actually is.

On more than one occasion players had a pass 1 – 3 yards away, but opted for that wicked long pass where the whole stands would say “BALL” in unison.

Of course the midfield positioning would seem retracted if the balls are constantly launched over their heads into the attacking third.

As a midfielder if you’re constantly being bypassed, is a matter of time before you not even bother chase go support, caw the ball a go lose and now yu haffi a chase back. You just ‘retract’ cuz that long ball will eventually come right back down the middle.

Then again, maybe the ‘retraction’ was a part of the overall game plan, cuz I did notice that most time at least 10 players were behind the ball when we defended.

BLESS


IP: Logged

BradfordArmy89
Junior Member

Posts: 16
From: Bradford - England
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 04-12-2006 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BradfordArmy89     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm Ricketts have a bad game I hear?

He's been different over recent weeks with Bradford, seems to be less confident, although he still makes these wonder saves something is on his mind. He was in the paper 2 weeks ago saying "you havent seen nothing yet" and going on about how he can do better, but obviously being the best keeper in the league he's got to have a few bad games

But I think saying "Ricketts has got to be one of the worst keepers produced by Jamaica and to be honest, I don't see what all the hype around him is about. He was playing like a 6 yr old in goal, with the ball constantly slipping out of his hand and him laughing and acting immature" is a tad harsh, Ricketts plays with a smile, thats what you want more players to do, im sure Ricketts will be great agaisnt England

Cummon Jamaica!

And well done Stew Peas

IP: Logged

cruyff14
Member

Posts: 3199
From: Mandeville
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-12-2006 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cruyff14     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Originally posted by Jahj:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW! the problem with Daley's tackling is perception rather than actual. As the replay showed, he did not foul Donovan when he got the card but his approach was so forceful, it created the impression that he did.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by JahPickney:
Originally posted by Jahj:
BINGO!


. . . the problem is perception is reality in this case. In other words it is the perception of (the majority) referees that is important. Our defenders leave their feet far too often. Look at that 2nd half tackle from Reid. Easily within tackling distance-simple bread and butter tackle was all that was required. It also tends to show up more when players are fatigued. If as a defender you slide-tackle 6 or 7 times a game, the likelihood of you getting booked or sent-off is quite high. I see it every week in the league we play in-Jamaican team in a mostly hispanic league. I can't tell how many times we've had perfectly legal tackles result in red cards because of the contrast in how the teams play and the perception of the referee. At some point you have to adjust to how the referee is likely to interpret the rules and use slide tackling as a last resort.

IP: Logged

BadRas
Member

Posts: 1295
From:
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 04-12-2006 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BadRas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way, the JA goal is a CLASSIC example of how simple the game is (or
should be).

GK (defender) distribute to the midfielder who distributes to the forward who shoots at goal. The one time we did that, we scored.

And no player involved in that goal took more than 2 (maybe 3) touches.

BLESS

IP: Logged

cruyff14
Member

Posts: 3199
From: Mandeville
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-12-2006 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cruyff14     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
. . .Reid and Daley are the combination for us to try to get ready for the next qualification attempt at wing-back. I actually think they would be better suited to playing in a 5-3-2(which I ordinarily am not that big a fan of). They both have the ability and mobility to attack and defend. Daley in particualr needs to temper his approach to tackling and use the slide as a last resort. I was looking forward to seeing Campbell-Ryce-he only showed a few flashes but I think he could be a good player for us.

IP: Logged

BadRas
Member

Posts: 1295
From:
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 04-12-2006 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BadRas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree cruyff.

5-3-2 with Khari at sweeper and Claude and Stew peas as ball winners/man marker. Daley and Reid/Bibi on the flanks.

My concern is 3 gfood midfielders, as we have a lot of options up-front.

IP: Logged

cruyff14
Member

Posts: 3199
From: Mandeville
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-12-2006 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cruyff14     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
. . .by the way I thought Stewart played well

IP: Logged

cruyff14
Member

Posts: 3199
From: Mandeville
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-12-2006 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cruyff14     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadRas:
I agree cruyff.

5-3-2 with Khari at sweeper and Claude and Stew peas as ball winners/man marker. Daley and Reid/Bibi on the flanks.

My concern is 3 gfood midfielders, as we have a lot of options up-front.


I would have Marshall sweep and play Bibi in midfield with Reid at left back

IP: Logged

dweetsweet2
Member

Posts: 97
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 04-12-2006 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dweetsweet2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Statistics on the game:

Shots: USA 11 - JAM 9
Saves: USA 2 - JAM 3
Corner Kicks: USA 11 - JAM 3
Fouls: USA 18 - JAM 21
Offside: USA 3 - JAM 2

IP: Logged

Xy
Member

Posts: 664
From:
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-12-2006 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Yellow card on Daley was a make up call by the ref. for the Ryce tackle that led to the goal. The (Ryce)tackle could easily have been a yellow card. The ref. wanted to take control of the game and he was caught up in anticipation. The tackle was on ball but I did'nt mind that the ref. issued a yellow card, because these players need to realize that 'black' teams in general have a perception of being aggressive, and these type of standard way of defending wont get us very far in World Cup soccer. You will eventually be playing with 10 or 9 men and giving away set play opportunities within shooting distance from your goal. This is simply not a very good option at this higher level and defenders need to be more refined and polished in their defending abilities. e.g. dispossessing opposing players by using tact and skill, using the sidelines as an extra defender, baiting players into a defensive zone. In general refs will allow finessee defenders to get away with very hard and clean tackles as opposed to someone who uses hard tackles as a routine.

I suggest that players with this type of 'problem' (because it is a sign of weakness i.e. the overuse of slide tackles) play on concrete or asphalt whenever they get the opportunity for obvious reasons. This will help them stay on their feet more and force them to adapt because cherries/strawberries are nasty and takes a while to heal.

The tackle was unnecessary(just like so many others), and watching it again on video it looks very amateurish. He would have been better off anticipating and cutting off the forwards cutting angle to the goal and guiding him down the sidelines while coverage is applied by his teammates.

Donavan picked the ball up with two defenders around him and moved forward looking for space, his movements and momentmum made him run pass Daley who was BALL WATCHING AND FLATFOOTED, and so he had to make a desperation tackle because of poor concentration and a lack of refined defensive posturing.

For the game I gave Daley an A-, he played well despite his mistake.

A defender needs to understand that inherent in a forward vs defender matchup the defender holds the advantage, if he would only understand the equation, because the forward have the burden of dribbling or passing the ball. However, its not that simple defenders need to know how to create this type of mindset and make it become second nature.

The Midfield was conceded partly due to defensive startegy and Jamaica's playing formation vs the US playing formation.

Hue; the thing with Hue is, he may disappear but thats his liability, but his asset and potential asset cancels his liability, and we saw the results. Anno any an any baller can concieve and deliver dem defense splitting pass de. I am willing to work with his liability as he possesses the talent to change a game.

As for Daley's penalty, at least 50% of the time you will not get that call away from home in the closing minutes of a game, I only hope we get the same bly at home.

Davis does not fit into this team and should be a reserve. He is quasi clumsy and is not fluid enough as a central defender, especially in a team with this emerging style. I blame both him and Ricketts, then the defense as a whole for the goal. Davis turned his back at the shot, he should have blocked or even control that shot and then toe punch it out, in rapid succession.

But overall a good effort, and this game makes a spectaclar coaching/training video.

History will record this one as a FIFA # 45 team playing a FIFA # 5 team to a 1-1 draw. No shame in that retrospectively.

[This message has been edited by Xy (edited 04-13-2006).]

IP: Logged

shaggybear
Member

Posts: 5433
From: Miami, FL, USA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-12-2006 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shaggybear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BradfordArmy89:
Hmmm Ricketts have a bad game I hear?

But I think saying "Ricketts has got to be one of the worst keepers produced by Jamaica and to be honest, I don't see what all the hype around him is about. He was playing like a 6 yr old in goal, with the ball constantly slipping out of his hand and him laughing and acting immature" is a tad harsh,


Don't know who said that, but it is stupid. Ricketts was acting weird and the goal he let in was pretty ridiculous on his part, but he made two world class saves in the second half.

World class saves...of a shot and off a header (if I remember). He reacted quickly, was full outstretched, and got his hands on both. I would not read that much into the weirdness though. I really thought he was not taking the game THAT seriously.

Same as with many of the other players, which is precisely why the US got its only goal. If this was a serious game, the players would (hopefully) have been on their lookout at all times. Instead, when they saw the injured US player was being looked at by the ref (and two JA players), they were all just kind of hanging back. Because of the nature of the game I don't think they were expecting that the US would try to restart when their injured player was still receiving attention.

Also on a couple tackles I saw JA players make overtures to the US players (which were rebuffed). I rally believe that JA was not taking this game very seriously, they just wanted to make a good showing.


IP: Logged

BradfordArmy89
Junior Member

Posts: 16
From: Bradford - England
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 04-12-2006 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BradfordArmy89     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cheers for that, made me feel better about Ricketts, thought he was going to go into Saterdays game with his head down!

You made me feel better cheers

He'll be up and ready for England trust me!

IP: Logged

charnock
Member

Posts: 117
From:
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-12-2006 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charnock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought Reid had fairly good game, which causes somewhat of a problem at LB. Someone suggested using Bibi as mid-fielder.I think Gardner's limitations of close ball skills and his extreme one-footedness would be major liabilities in mid-field. Gardner needs space to function effectively.Without the benefit of the sideline, his one-footed tackling would be a major problem. He needs to stay at wing back. I think although football is a team game, you still need at least one orchestrator,(more than one is even better) in midfield .Right now Hue is only a part time orchestrator.Previous to the US game, I said the problem with the team was in the midfield,and the game last night confirmed this fact.At the time I suggested, due to the long term benefits to the program of a good performance against England,that Andy be asked to come back even it is for one game.Someone had disagreed due to the fact Andy would probably not give a long term commitment. However, I think the long term benefits outweigh the long term commitment in this case.I think, a midfield of Andy, Euell,Stephenson and using Daley as the ball winning,hard-working midfielder that has been missing in midfield since Fitzroy Simpson in 1998.Daley played very well last night and may have been the best player on the pitch.He seems to be maturing and is not as rash and angry as he was previously.

IP: Logged

pelepapa
Member

Posts: 871
From:
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 04-12-2006 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pelepapa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What have any player on the Jamaican side accomplished to date to afford NOT to take ANY game seriously?

It amazing that a statement like that can be mentioned so nonchalantly...if the statement is valid then it highlights a major problem that needs to be nip in the bud. If they can afford not to take a game against the USA seriously with a match with England coming up soon, then what is going to happen when they actually beat the USA once or twice?

I'll tell you what will happen. The next step forward will always elude them because they will clown it away also. Unfortunately that's a troubling trend I see with many black teams in all sport. Once they reach a certain level everyone start clowning around trying to show off their individual skills instead of buckling down and taking care of the task at hand.

There is no logic to the statement about not taking the game seriously so mi know it can't be true. Maybe they don't know how to act seriously.

Finally, the so call 'fair play' that everyone practice in football does not exist in the USA players mentality. You can see it pains them whenever they have to do it. None of their sport teaches it, actually all their sports teach that a down or hurt opponent is an advantage to be exploited...therefore when you play against them you have to be wary of that.

IP: Logged

shaggybear
Member

Posts: 5433
From: Miami, FL, USA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-12-2006 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shaggybear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They would want to win, of course, but this was not a do or die game. I think you will see a more amped up team for England.


A number of the players on that field were not working very hard. JJ was not working hard. With that guy there is no such thing as a first 1/3 defense (except when he made one ATTEMPT on one occasion-and I'm not even sure it was him). Hue seemed to be pretty lax when not on the ball.

The defense was on in the second half, but not the first. In the second half they were doing more to keep the US players in front of them and they actually did more to pick up unmarked men, something they were not doing in the first half.

Kudos to Daley and Stewart.

IP: Logged

jahbilly
Member

Posts: 332
From: usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-12-2006 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jahbilly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice game for di yutes. Still think Daley should be up front. I want my opponents defenders to fear my forwards. He has the best shot on the team and I would want him to beat one or two defender then unleash on the goalie.
Daley playing much too far from the goal, and has to work too hard to get a shot off.

IP: Logged

Lionpaw
Member

Posts: 94
From: G.B Bahamas
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 04-12-2006 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lionpaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shaggybear:
Don't know who said that, but it is stupid. Ricketts was acting weird and the goal he let in was pretty ridiculous on his part, but he made two world class saves in the second half.

World class saves...of a shot and off a header (if I remember). He reacted quickly, was full outstretched, and got his hands on both. I would not read that much into the weirdness though. I really thought he was not taking the game THAT seriously.

Same as with many of the other players, which is precisely why the US got its only goal. If this was a serious game, the players would (hopefully) have been on their lookout at all times. Instead, when they saw the injured US player was being looked at by the ref (and two JA players), they were all just kind of hanging back. Because of the nature of the game I don't think they were expecting that the US would try to restart when their injured player was still receiving attention.

Also on a couple tackles I saw JA players make overtures to the US players (which were rebuffed). I rally believe that JA was not taking this game very seriously, they just wanted to make a good showing.


Fawt yah chat

IP: Logged

Big Mountain
Member

Posts: 1218
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-13-2006 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big Mountain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are so many threads going on about the game. I think we have to give the team some credit and encourage them on a good performance. We could have easily won this game if not for a few bad calls and Ricketts obvious mistakes. The US supporters thought we played well and gave them a good fight. Why can't we see that? Of course some players did not play well and some made me nervous at times; However, it was a good team result for this mostly inexperience squad.

This game was important for the USA - It was Front Page news in the USA-Today Sports Section. 04/12/06.

IP: Logged

shaggybear
Member

Posts: 5433
From: Miami, FL, USA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-13-2006 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shaggybear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lionpaw:
Fawt yah chat



But of course.

The only part of your post that was reasonable was the statement about the goal kicks. Ricketts seems to have a confidence issue, but he is a very good goalkeeper and he showed on two occasions just how good he is (or can be).

The only problem I see is him sending those goal kicks long and praying someone in a yellow shirt ends up with it. That makes no sense, particularly since his kicks are wanting for accuracy and the JA side seems, in any event, to have problems bringing those balls under control. However, he is not responsible for that. The blame lies squarely with the TD who sits there and says nothing while it is done over and over again.

[This message has been edited by shaggybear (edited 04-13-2006).]

IP: Logged

JahPickney
Member

Posts: 1577
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-13-2006 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JahPickney     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From PP:

quote:
What have any player on the Jamaican side accomplished to date to afford NOT to take ANY game seriously?
It amazing that a statement like that can be mentioned so nonchalantly...if the statement is valid then it highlights a major problem that needs to be nip in the bud. If they can afford not to take a game against the USA seriously with a match with England coming up soon, then what is going to happen when they actually beat the USA once or twice?

I'll tell you what will happen. The next step forward will always elude them because they will clown it away also. Unfortunately that's a troubling trend I see with many black teams in all sport. Once they reach a certain level everyone start clowning around trying to show off their individual skills instead of buckling down and taking care of the task at hand.

There is no logic to the statement about not taking the game seriously so mi know it can't be true. Maybe they don't know how to act seriously.

Finally, the so call 'fair play' that everyone practice in football does not exist in the USA players mentality. You can see it pains them whenever they have to do it. None of their sport teaches it, actually all their sports teach that a down or hurt opponent is an advantage to be exploited...therefore when you play against them you have to be wary of that.


PP, I think you've found your focus. I had to re-read this in agreement.

Good stuff.

IP: Logged

shaggybear
Member

Posts: 5433
From: Miami, FL, USA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-13-2006 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shaggybear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PP, maybe it would have been better if I had said that the players probably did not feel there was anything to lose. Actually, I think said that.

What I mean is I believe they saw it not only as a friendly, but also as an "experimental" match, where everyone was going to get a runnout for one reason or the other. In proper matches, you play to win, you don't freely sub in unproven players to assess their ability.

If you look at it from that point of view, you may understand more what I mean when I say they didn't take the game seriously.

Yes, they wanted to win, but I don't believe there was a view of any consequences were tied to the results of the game.

IP: Logged

JahPickney
Member

Posts: 1577
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-13-2006 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JahPickney     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could it be that the 6 subs set-up proved more useful to Arena than to Downswell?

IP: Logged

pelepapa
Member

Posts: 871
From:
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 04-15-2006 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pelepapa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shaggybear:
PP, maybe it would have been better if I had said that the players probably did not feel there was anything to lose. Actually, I think said that.

What I mean is I believe they saw it not only as a friendly, but also as an "experimental" match, where everyone was going to get a runnout for one reason or the other. In proper matches, you play to win, you don't freely sub in unproven players to assess their ability.

If you look at it from that point of view, you may understand more what I mean when I say they didn't take the game seriously.

Yes, they wanted to win, but I don't believe there was a view of any consequences were tied to the results of the game.



Shaggy I understand what you are saying...My post was a sarcastic response to the many violations in your post of what I was led to believe by Jacans to be the imbedded Jacan mentality that enables them to triumph against all odds.

Base on that historical Jacan mentality I expected each player to have the following outlook:

1- Coach call mi an experiment, but mi know fi mi skills and anyhow him gi mi a run mi know mi ah go score bout 2 goals gainst dem Yanki boyz. Bout mi ah experiment...Ah weh him tek mi fa?

2- Coach might nah tek dis game yah seriously, but ah farin mi ah play and mi si it as an opportunity fi showcase mi skill pon ah big stage and mek an impression pon a farin team. Mi see Nandi and some other boys do it di odda day and now dem ah eat ah food ah farin.

3- Coach might nah tek dis game seriously, but mi hear seh a big game ah come up gainst England and the little chance him ah go gi mi gainst dem Yankis mi a go mek di best of it so him can gi mi a run gainst England and who knows maybe mi could end up ah Liverpool or Man. U.

Shaggy, dat no sound more like di never seh die mentality weh carve out opportunities where others don't see them? Maybe to me the game would be meaningless, but I wouldn't expect a Jacan to see it the same way.

IP: Logged

mobydick
Member

Posts: 1529
From: Toronto,Ontario, Canada
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-16-2006 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mobydick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pele P..yuh mek mi laff to rahtid. yuh is real genius with yr responses.

IP: Logged


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Reggae Boyz

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e