Trinidad needs a warrior like Shorty Malcolm or Pepe who rise to the ocassion in games that demand it or a player like the Pearl who can silence 120,000 people with one moment of magic(as much as the Pearl haters hate to hear this I will continue to preach it till dem give up)still the only Jamaican to score in the Azteca in WCQ

anyway back to the topic at hand we need more firebrand players who play with passion and if unnu notice unnu see how we have the white man(again I said it) a tell how to do as I say and not as I do.

Notice how we parrot the Europeans on this whole discipline players crap and in the caribbean seek to malign our temperamental geniuses not understanding that you need those players on your team but mek a European team have a player like that and see how dem hail their own.(see England and Rooney) we still don't get it.

That is why I said the expertise to elevate Jamaican football lies outside of Jamaica dem people a yard no too up pon the mental warfare part of this thing. Dem fi go read Art of War

Trinidad this is your last chance and if you collapse again then you might never recover and trust me you will forever live in the shadow of Jamaica.

U see how all these Jamaicans on here a gwaan nice mek unnu lose and no qualify and see if no trini can have no talk around here again.

Anyway please allow me to take the high road and the party line and say "support Trinidad" right now and a positive thoughts we a deal with reh reh.

After all I too want to move with the crowd

quote:

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Originally posted by Shatta_Cleve:
there I said out loud what most of us were thinking but too scared to say(I will gladly take the fall for those who were too cowardly to say it)

Trinidad needs a warrior like Shorty Malcolm or Pepe who rise to the ocassion in games that demand it or a player like the Pearl who can silence 120,000 people with one moment of magic(as much as the Pearl haters hate to hear this I will continue to preach it till dem give up)still the only Jamaican to score in the Azteca in WCQ

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shatta_Cleve:
there I said out loud what most of us were thinking but too scared to say(I will gladly take the fall for those who were too cowardly to say it)

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I already said all that already after T&T lost 5-1 to Guatemala. Then was branded a hater by TT and laughed off by Jt who said something to the effect of the same character and determination that caused us to lose to that eediat team Panamá. But one manīs observation is another manīs hate.

You no see the man dem get rid of Shavar because him dare to speak him mind and the youth mindset is that of a winner?

wait you nah see what a gwaan round here these days? YOu no see the man dem were afraid fi bench Bibi, Tappa and Fuller when they should have use the hungry youths dem fi give dem a shake up

Anyway back to T&T when you have germany over the horizon and a bwoy inna you backyard you fi a chaw fire and if you no win at least a few yellow cards fi get dish out.

Man fi play with passion when its all on the line especially the man dem who almost made it 16 years ago.

Are we forever doomed to keep hearing bout how Haiti rob T&T in the last millenium?

T&T fi play like dem lives depend pon it after all JA set the standard we can't have T&T come mash it up now

quote:

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Originally posted by reddevil:
I already said all that already after T&T lost 5-1 to Guatemala. Then was branded a hater by TT and laughed off by Jt who said something to the effect of the same character and determination that caused us to lose to that eediat team Panamá. But one manīs observation is another manīs hate.

[This message has been edited by reddevil (edited 11-14-2005).]

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No hate reddevil and honest assessment of Jamaica's performance. You know they say monkey cannot see their own tail. Jamaica in the last qualification lacked the same quality Shatta_Cleve says T&T needs. Nuh so!

quote:

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Originally posted by Observer:

No hate reddevil and honest assessment of Jamaica's performance. You know they say monkey cannot see their own tail. Jamaica in the last qualification lacked the same quality Shatta_Cleve says T&T needs. Nuh so!

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Now where we might go seperate ways is where I will argue that those players with fight are in Jamaica but weren't utilised because of incompetent administrators but with the Trini if this happen again it will seem like its part of their mindset.

So yet many of us knew where Shatta was going with this and I won't spend time arguing about the Jamaican team of this qualifiers possessing any true grit because for the most part no one stepped up after Lowe got railroaded(had to get that in, did you guys really think I wasn't going to find a way to put Lowe in this?)

My point(and unnu no try go round it) is that Maybe its the trini mindset to be more accepting of being second best sometimes.

Dem need some of our war like mentality as people like Ato Boldon who used to kiss up to the Yankee who used to always a beat him.

Ato could have learnt from people like Ottey and Veronica who not even used to look pon the Yankee them much less talk to them. Then again that might be a Jamaican trait cause even the Bahamian 4*100 meter women were more friendly to the yankee dem.

quote:

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Originally posted by reddevil:
But they came back and got some good road results at Washington and San Salvador while getting the job done in Kingston, isnīt that why we call it the office? .

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quote:

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Originally posted by reddevil:
Cruyff and Observer, when I refer to Jaīs character I speak of 1998. That changed after then and we got complacent and let ourselves down thinking we could walk into every World Cup. For 2002 we were poor in the hex. In 1998 we picked up some spankings 0-6 reverses at Mexico and also to Bolivia had me thinking the worst. But they came back and got some good road results at Washington and San Salvador while getting the job done in Kingston, isnīt that why we call it the office? The point is, we had every reason to doubt the Boyz and they kept on showing spirit and made us proud. If however T&T can pull of this road result it would be a tremendous result thanks to fire and fight.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shatta_Cleve:

Are we forever doomed to keep hearing bout how Haiti rob T&T in the last millenium?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shatta_Cleve:
there I said out loud what most of us were thinking but too scared to say(I will gladly take the fall for those who were too cowardly to say it)

Trinidad needs a warrior like Shorty Malcolm or Pepe who rise to the ocassion in games that demand it or a player like the Pearl who can silence 120,000 people with one moment of magic(as much as the Pearl haters hate to hear this I will continue to preach it till dem give up)still the only Jamaican to score in the Azteca in WCQ

anyway back to the topic at hand we need more firebrand players who play with passion and if unnu notice unnu see how we have the white man(again I said it) a tell how to do as I say and not as I do.

Notice how we parrot the Europeans on this whole discipline players crap and in the caribbean seek to malign our temperamental geniuses not understanding that you need those players on your team but mek a European team have a player like that and see how dem hail their own.(see England and Rooney) we still don't get it.

That is why I said the expertise to elevate Jamaican football lies outside of Jamaica dem people a yard no too up pon the mental warfare part of this thing. Dem fi go read Art of War

Trinidad this is your last chance and if you collapse again then you might never recover and trust me you will forever live in the shadow of Jamaica.

U see how all these Jamaicans on here a gwaan nice mek unnu lose and no qualify and see if no trini can have no talk around here again.

Anyway please allow me to take the high road and the party line and say "support Trinidad" right now and a positive thoughts we a deal with reh reh.

After all I too want to move with the crowd

Just my thoughts

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Shotta, I man agree with you 100%...T&T just don't seem to have that Fire in their Bellies at all. I watched that game and I was really Rooting for dem, but dem just make the little Scranny Arab man pushed dem round on the Field, mi vex star. T&T must realize that making to the WC is going to take Blood, Sweat and Some Tears. Ex.

Jamaica VS Toros Neza of Mexico in a friendly back in 98". Remember the Big Brawl and Jamaica neva back down... we stood our Ground even though we were in their back yard. Rene Simoes with a broken Nose and Nandi with hand in a Sling. Thats when I knew Jamaica was Ready for the WC. I not advocating Violence in Football her, but if you're Confronted you have to stand up.

quote:

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Originally posted by cruyff14:
I disagree somewhat. I think this may be based more on perception than any reality. We tend to look back on events with revisionist glasses tinted with whatever we choose to ascribe to the event later. In '98 Jamaica was having a simlar campaign to the last two we've had, and Deon Burton just hit the goal-scoring vein of his life-coupled with good defending allowed us to get to the promised land. I don't think it was so much heart and character that got us there, I think it was solid defending, Deon Burton and good coaching, and of course as you always need-a little bit of good luck.

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Haiti

RISE 1960-1972 DOMINATION 1972-1981 FALL 1981-present

Jamaica

RISE 1990-1997 DOMINATION* 1997-2004 FALL# 2005? - ?

It seems to me that Jamaica's football follows the same slope as Haiti's in the 70's.

quote:

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Originally posted by morefire1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cruyff14:
[b] I disagree somewhat. I think this may be based more on perception than any reality. We tend to look back on events with revisionist glasses tinted with whatever we choose to ascribe to the event later. In '98 Jamaica was having a simlar campaign to the last two we've had, and Deon Burton just hit the goal-scoring vein of his life-coupled with good defending allowed us to get to the promised land. I don't think it was so much heart and character that got us there, I think it was solid defending, Deon Burton and good coaching, and of course as you always need-a little bit of good luck.

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Bahrain lacked the skill, power and physical attributes fi really compete with trinidad and I dare any of unnu fi tell mi say a lie mi did a tell say the Trinis were too laid back in the first game.

You no see all Yorke a pick up yellow card a fight fi it? A so man fi play when it is all on the line you fi leave it all pon the field and a guy fi know say him have to earn it.

Finally Yorke can now get the club balla monkey off his back as he left it all on the field by leading by example.

I think as people sometimes we are too damn politically correct at times, more trinidadians than Jamaicans have told me that Jamaicans have that aggresive fire that they lack so now I am a hater for pointing out the obvious?

Trinidad played like jokers the first game and every trini pon here know that so why unnu a go round and come round now that unnu win the second game. I can be man enough to say congrats to trinidad for qualifying for Germany and the man dem fi be man enough fi say that trinidad played crappy the first game end of story.

Anyway for people claiming that Shatta is a revisionist I guess nuff a dem new to Jamaican football so mek me give them a brief overview. 1998 was more guts and heart than skill nuff man a talk bout Burton but dem need fi realise say we damn near never made it out of the first round if it wasn't for that Jamaican fight.

Yes I damn well said it and nuff a unnu a gwaan like say Jamaica had the pedigree to be drawing with central american teams at that time? Hell we barely could have gotten past Martinique and Haiti much less beat Costa Rica so now man a talk bout Burton like we had a god given right to make it to the Hexagonal.

Now allow me to take a revisionist trip down memory lane for you newcomers.

After Jamaica killed HOnduras 3-0 at the national stadium, Honduras then shocked Mexico in Tegucigalpa and when Jamaica visited them at home if they had beaten the mainly local team we would have not made it to the Hex. In the second half the Pearl got a red card(Jamaica's best player) and we were down to 10 men and an injured goalkeeper who was limping.

With fans screaming at us and throwing piss and the likes we were able to pull out a 0-0 time(after about 10 minutes of injury time) so a guy no come tell me bout revisionist history.

When Mexico came to Jamaica for the last game of the first round and we beat them 1-0 who can forget Pepe limping but refusing to come off the field(talk about wanting it really bad) of course the header is now stuff of legends.(where was Burton in all this?)

OH by the way all we heard was "vamos a san pedro sula" where Honduras was slamming San vincent 11-3 as Honduras needed a mexican victory and a win by 8 clear goal to go through

Oh yeah I could go on all day but who remember when Fitzroy Simpson dropped into the caldruon that is Mateo Flores stadium and we were neck and neck with El Salvador for the last spot and with them intimidating us Fitrozy say him look over pon Shorty malcolm who say "if a war dem want then that is my middle name" and he then drew strength from that.

brethrins I could go on all day but when Shatta talk bout strength of character no tell me bout revisionist as i lived this.

Anyway again mek me close by saying congrats again to T&T and especially Mr Yorke who showed a Lowe like desire to want to win.

Never seen Yorke play like that for his national team before and with Germany over the horizon a so you expect a man fi a fight

Now that is the passion you want from your footballers.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shatta_Cleve:
HOw some a the man dem move like a gal so? imagine the topic deh bout from 19 o long and unnu a wait till after the game fi come reply.

Bahrain lacked the skill, power and physical attributes fi really compete with trinidad and I dare any of unnu fi tell mi say a lie mi did a tell say the Trinis were too laid back in the first game.

You no see all Yorke a pick up yellow card a fight fi it? A so man fi play when it is all on the line you fi leave it all pon the field and a guy fi know say him have to earn it.

Finally Yorke can now get the club balla monkey off his back as he left it all on the field by leading by example.

I think as people sometimes we are too damn politically correct at times, more trinidadians than Jamaicans have told me that Jamaicans have that aggresive fire that they lack so now I am a hater for pointing out the obvious?

Trinidad played like jokers the first game and every trini pon here know that so why unnu a go round and come round now that unnu win the second game. I can be man enough to say congrats to trinidad for qualifying for Germany and the man dem fi be man enough fi say that trinidad played crappy the first game end of story.

Anyway for people claiming that Shatta is a revisionist I guess nuff a dem new to Jamaican football so mek me give them a brief overview. 1998 was more guts and heart than skill nuff man a talk bout Burton but dem need fi realise say we damn near never made it out of the first round if it wasn't for that Jamaican fight.

Yes I damn well said it and nuff a unnu a gwaan like say Jamaica had the pedigree to be drawing with central american teams at that time? Hell we barely could have gotten past Martinique and Haiti much less beat Costa Rica so now man a talk bout Burton like we had a god given right to make it to the Hexagonal.

Now allow me to take a revisionist trip down memory lane for you newcomers.

After Jamaica killed HOnduras 3-0 at the national stadium, Honduras then shocked Mexico in Tegucigalpa and when Jamaica visited them at home if they had beaten the mainly local team we would have not made it to the Hex. In the second half the Pearl got a red card(Jamaica's best player) and we were down to 10 men and an injured goalkeeper who was limping.

With fans screaming at us and throwing piss and the likes we were able to pull out a 0-0 time(after about 10 minutes of injury time) so a guy no come tell me bout revisionist history.

When Mexico came to Jamaica for the last game of the first round and we beat them 1-0 who can forget Pepe limping but refusing to come off the field(talk about wanting it really bad) of course the header is now stuff of legends.(where was Burton in all this?)

OH by the way all we heard was "vamos a san pedro sula" where Honduras was slamming San vincent 11-3 as Honduras needed a mexican victory and a win by 8 clear goal to go through

Oh yeah I could go on all day but who remember when Fitzroy Simpson dropped into the caldruon that is Mateo Flores stadium and we were neck and neck with El Salvador for the last spot and with them intimidating us Fitrozy say him look over pon Shorty malcolm who say "if a war dem want then that is my middle name" and he then drew strength from that.

brethrins I could go on all day but when Shatta talk bout strength of character no tell me bout revisionist as i lived this.

Anyway again mek me close by saying congrats again to T&T and especially Mr Yorke who showed a Lowe like desire to want to win.

Never seen Yorke play like that for his national team before and with Germany over the horizon a so you expect a man fi a fight

Now that is the passion you want from your footballers.

congrats again to T&T, and no I am not a hater I am just bold enough to say out loud what others think but are too politically correct to say.

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Shatta - this is T&T time...let them enjoy the moment. What we did was 8 years ago, and we sure did not show any heart when it mattered this round of qualification.... against Panama, El Salvador and the US.

quote:

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Originally posted by morefire1:
Si mi yah! mi nah hide..nah tek back nuh chat.... Call mi whatever uno want, but T&T won that Secound game because they played with the Fire and grit that was missing from the First Game.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cruyff14:

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Come 2010 the Reggae Boyz will be at the Big Dance. A T&T time now! its all gravy...Just hate to give up the Caribbean #1 Ranking..

Trinidad 0 England 4
Japan 5 Trinidad 0
France 7 Trinidad 0

quote:

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Originally posted by aliegordon123:
Jamiaca is still the #1 team in the carribean...jus because t&t made world cup and we didnt doesnt make them better then us...but this doesnt mean that jamaica gave up its # 1 ranking like sum of these comments say

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This is exactly what the Trinis were saying 8 years ago only to have us take them down in the Caribbean Cup on their turf. I didnīt agree with them saying it then and I donīt agree with Jamaicans saying it now when the shoeīs on the other foot. The Caribbean counts for less than a drop in the ocean compared to the World Cup so T&T achievement warrants the same as ours. However, T&T is an old side is ripe for some beatings after Germany when they will have to rebuild.

quote:

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Originally posted by reddevil:
This is exactly what the Trinis were saying 8 years ago only to have us take them down in the Caribbean Cup on their turf. I didnīt agree with them saying it then and I donīt agree with Jamaicans saying it now when the shoeīs on the other foot. The Caribbean counts for less than a drop in the ocean compared to the World Cup so T&T achievement warrants the same as ours. However, T&T is an old side is ripe for some beatings after Germany when they will have to rebuild.

[This message has been edited by reddevil (edited 11-18-2005).]

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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Please give credit where credit is due.

Germany...Germany...Germany..as I said a team of destiny..not the best we ever had, but determined as ever.

T*T has much young players in te wings..watch the ride!

With respect to the claim that Jamaica is still the #1 team in Caribbean I think thats far from the truth. I think Jamaica could have beaten T&T at the start of qualifying. Today however, is a different story. This technical team has organised our players like never before. The players have more confidence than ever. Two years ago we couldn't string 5 passes together. Today the passing game is critical for us.

The Jamaican strength has always been aggresion and Trinidad strength has always been skill. A lot men on this forum would be insulted by that statement but I'm judging that based on videos I've seen of both teams.I would love for there to be a game against Jamaica soon. I think Trinidad would win 2-1.

The sooner Trinidad gets younger the better.

But you cannot leave man like Yorke and Latapy off any roster that is going to the World Cup, bearing injury, representing Trinidad. So you can imagine how carefull these guys will play from now until the World Cup start.

I man know I would not go into any big tackle anytime soon if I were Trini. I would want my moment in the sun. You might play one good game and get a nice contract.

quote:

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Originally posted by truetrini:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

T&T did well despite the weaknesses.

As Shatta said..heart grit and determination was always in this team as compared to argueably more talented teams of the past.

I was in the National Stadium when we played Bahrain and the comments made were very similar to wat shatta said.

nuff man siad that if Bahrain was playing Jamaica dem woulda get at least 4 in de first half.

After all is said and done,..the team pulled through and I for one GOING GERMANY!

T*T has much young players in te wings..watch the ride!

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