quote:

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Originally posted by reddevil:
Correction here, Australia did playoff with an Asian team for France 98...Japan knocked them off. Then Uruguay.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pelepapa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jt:
[B] On Numerous occassions Pelepapa. Many occassions.

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No point... Coz I have done it b4 and yu trace and galong bad even when legitimate questions were asked of you.

Other players have suggested your approach seems as if you seek to dis rather than partake in discussion and yu still refuting that..

Yes TT... Triniman.. Panama for Jamaica is like Jamaica for Guatamala... Our group was the wicked.. Some big games and Jamaica did let themselves down but come on.. TnT has had an easy ride for years..

The fourth spot Concacaf got could of been left for the defending champions. Concacaf did not receive a fourt spot bcoz of performance coz the same could of been said of Europe and Africa. The same Argument put forward about Australia could be used for reasoning why we got a half spot. But if Burrell was leader he would not advocate for that spot and that spot would of went to another federation. Warner did argue for it bcoz he knew TnT stood a better chance of qualifying. And thats why you guys played St. Vincent and St Kitts or whoever whilst we had to battle pass harder opposition which Jamaica seemed to mess up.. Maybe Warner paid Laza, coz mi cant si how big coach like that can come unprepared... But lets leave that alone.. That spot was made for TnT.. Any other federation could of gotten an extra spot..

quote:

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Originally posted by jt:

No point... Coz I have done it b4 and yu trace and galong bad even when legitimate questions were asked of you.

Other players have suggested your approach seems as if you seek to dis rather than partake in discussion and yu still refuting that..

Yes TT... Triniman.. Panama for Jamaica is like Jamaica for Guatamala... Our group was the wicked.. Some big games and Jamaica did let themselves down but come on.. TnT has had an easy ride for years..

The fourth spot Concacaf got could of been left for the defending champions. Concacaf did not receive a fourt spot bcoz of performance coz the same could of been said of Europe and Africa. The same Argument put forward about Australia could be used for reasoning why we got a half spot. But if Burrell was leader he would not advocate for that spot and that spot would of went to another federation. Warner did argue for it bcoz he knew TnT stood a better chance of qualifying. And thats why you guys played St. Vincent and St Kitts or whoever whilst we had to battle pass harder opposition which Jamaica seemed to mess up.. Maybe Warner paid Laza, coz mi cant si how big coach like that can come unprepared... But lets leave that alone.. That spot was made for TnT.. Any other federation could of gotten an extra spot..

Out of all the spots created we only got half.. Bcoz Y??

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We have played many tought WCQ's...I suggest that you are mistaken!

CONCACAF had two spots T&T came third. USA

Concacaf had 3 spots T&T failed to make the hex Jamaica went WC) Then last Hex T&T came last

Concacaf had 3 1/2 spots T&T came fourth and are in the playoffs.

I put it to you that jamaica has benefitted MORE from Jack Warner than T&T! As you have been to the WC.

Saying tht Jack Warner made that spot for T&T is like saying that the USA made a lottery JUST for me to win![/B][/QUOTE]

quote:

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Originally posted by truetrini:
Saying tht Jack Warner made that spot for T&T is like saying that the USA made a lottery JUST for me to win!

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We don't NEED four spots, we only need the three we have US and Mexico deserve to be in the WC and di res' of us NEED to prove our worth by coming out on top to take the third spot.

As much as we don't want to admit it(and I can see why we don't want to admit it since it was a decision extensively backed on this site), the absurd decision to replace a coach who was getting very good results under the circumstances right after we comfortably dispatched a dangerous Haitian aggregation was a major reason why we didn't take advantage ourselves of that extra opportunity.

For 1998 and 2002 WC when concacaf had 3 spots

jamaica had Mexico ,honduras st vincent in the group stages- bear in mind honduras was not strong back then

Trinidad was in a group with Usa ,costa rica and guatamala
So where was the easy ride??

fOR 2002 WC group stages Panama ,Mexico and Canada - another easy group

Jamaica had st vincent , Elsalvador and honduras - WOW KILLER GROUP HERE.

quote:

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Originally posted by Princess:
[b]Warning: I don't really know what this thread is about, only responding to C's last post:

[/B]

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Jt, tek a lesson from your fellow moderator, the Princess, check out the disclaimer above.

That will prevent you from waltzing into the middle of a thread and attacking someone without knowing the issue or its context.

I concur with you Princess. Actually I will go even further, the level of play of our teams demands just 2 spots with the possibility for a 3rd.

3 spots with the possibility for a 4th is largely undeserve, but when you have the power yu fi tek full advantage of it and always try to get the most out of it, deserving or not...especially in today's environment where it is all about business and money and the game hardly matters...tomorrow with a different management at fifa those spots could be gone to the new mgr.'s conference.

quote:

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Originally posted by pelepapa:
Jt, tek a lesson from your fellow moderator, the Princess, check out the disclaimer above.

That will prevent you from waltzing into the middle of a thread and attacking someone without knowing the issue or its context.

I concur with you Princess. Actually I will go even further, the level of play of our teams demands just 2 spots with the possibility for a 3rd.

3 spots with the possibility for a 4th is largely undeserve, but when you have the power yu fi tek full advantage of it and always try to get the most out of it, deserving or not...especially in today's environment where it is all about business and money and the game hardly matters...tomorrow with a different management at fifa those spots could be gone to the new mgr.'s conference.

[This message has been edited by pelepapa (edited 11-04-2005).]

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Absolutely right.

JAck has done much for CONCACAF, best man ever to hold the post for CONCACAF!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by truetrini:
Breds CONCACAF had only one spot..T&T came second. (Robbed blindly in Haiti)

I put it to you that jamaica has benefitted MORE from Jack Warner than T&T! As you have been to the WC.

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Com'on! Trinidad also lost to Honduras in 73. Why is it only their loss to Haiti caused them to miss Germany 74? Haiti was a better team than TnT in 73. However, TnT had a great match in Port-au-Prince and many HAITIANS believed they shoud have won. Unfortunately TnT lost 1-2. Is that so unusual in the sport of football? Did Haiti also make TnT lose to Honduras? Anyway, that's another topic.

However, I agree with you that Jamaica benefits from Warner's position. All important regional competitions are held either in TnT or Jamaica. The Trinidadian boss even made Haiti pay a US$5000 fine for refusing to play what was supposed to be a Haiti's 'home game' in Kingston!!!!!! Ironically, the boss had no problem whatsoever to let a cuban team play Haiti in Port-au-Prince just a few days after the incident

The fact of the matter is that European teams historically benefited from the previous structure. With expansion - and the incorporation of more non-Euro qualifiers - a tentative spot resulting from a playoff versus an Asian squad is far from an unreasonable arrangement.

The fear of discrediting CONCACAF by being embarassed on the WC stage is negated by the inherent competition for the spot. I think 'ites are being very short-sighted in promoting fear as a criteria.

Saudi Arabian football has suffered telling losses at the big dance and one can hardly argue a compelling case of irreparable harm on the Saudi effort or reputation.

We ought to be careful about presumptions.

AFGHANISTAN
BAHRAIN BANGLADESH
BHUTAN
BRUNEI DARUSSALAM
CAMBODIA
CHINA
CHINESE TAIPEI
DEM. PEO. REP. OF KOREA (aka North Korea)
GUAM
HONG KONG
INDIA
INDONESIA
IRAQ
ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN
JAPAN
JORDAN
KOREA
KUWAIT
KYRGYZSTAN
LAO PEO. DEM. REP.
LEBANON
MACAO
MALAYSIA
MALDIVES
MONGOLIA
MYANMAR
NEPAL
OMAN
PAKISTAN
PALESTINE PHILIPPINES QATAR
SAUDI ARABIA
SINGAPORE
SRI LANKA
SYRIA
TAJIKISTAN
THAILAND
TIMOR-LESTE (EAST TIMOR)
TURKMENISTAN
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
UZBEKISTAN
VIETNAM
YEMEN

Oceania members:

NEW CALEDONIA
AUSTRALIA
AMERICAN SAMOA
COOK ISLANDS
FIJI
NEW ZEALAND
PAPUA NEW GUINEA
SAMOA
SOLOMON ISLANDS
TAHITI
TONGA
VANUATU

CONCACAF members:

Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
British Virgin Islands
Canada
Cayman Islands
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominica
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
French Guyana
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Jamaica
Martinique
Mexico
Montserrat
Netherlands Antilles
Nicaragua
Panama
Puerto Rico
Saint-Martin
Sint Maarten
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and The Grenadines
Surinam
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands
US Virgin Islands
USA

I am not sure about the underperforming thing, but we sure are a stronger confederation than Oceania. No doubt.

quote:

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Originally posted by haitiball:
Com'on! Trinidad also lost to Honduras in 73. Why is it only their loss to Haiti caused them to miss Germany 74? Haiti was a better team than TnT in 73. However, TnT had a great match in Port-au-Prince and many HAITIANS believed they shoud have won. Unfortunately TnT lost 1-2. Is that so unusual in the sport of football? Did Haiti also make TnT lose to Honduras? Anyway, that's another topic.

However, I agree with you that Jamaica benefits from Warner's position. All important regional competitions are held either in TnT or Jamaica. The Trinidadian boss even made Haiti pay a US$5000 fine for refusing to play what was supposed to be a Haiti's 'home game' in Kingston!!!!!! Ironically, the boss had no problem whatsoever to let a cuban team play Haiti in Port-au-Prince just a few days after the incident

[This message has been edited by haitiball (edited 11-04-2005).]

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Haitiball, the fact is that T&T demolished Mexico and Haiti in 73 only to be denied the place in Germany by Papa Doc's conniving and bribery.

Twist it anyway you like,,,But there is no way that Haiti was better than T&T then!

Many Haitians KNEW that we won in P Au P...we were robbed blindly!

quote:

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Originally posted by truetrini:

Haitiball, the fact is that T&T demolished Mexico and Haiti in 73 only to be denied the place in Germany by Papa Doc's conniving and bribery.

Twist it anyway you like,,,But there is no way that Haiti was better than T&T then!

Many Haitians KNEW that we won in P Au P...we were robbed blindly!

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AS USUAL, TnT started Hex 73 slow. They lost their first match to then lowly Honduras. They however came back strong against the host Haiti. They again lost 2-1. TnT played better that day and was denied a nice goal, a decision that offended many Haitians. Both teams had 3 more matches to play. TnT then scored a controversial goal against Guatemala and won 1-0, while Haiti went on a victory spree. Until then there was no hostility between Haitians and Trinidadians (There used to be many Trinis living in Haiti). With Haiti's victory over Guatemala (2-1), the host virtually qualified with 12pts while TnT crushed Mexico in what was the best match of the competition. It was carnival time in Port-au-Prince, not only to celebrate Haiti's qualification but also to celebrate Mexico's humiliation. TnT now has 6 pts. Already qualified, Haiti played mexico with an experimental team and lost 0-1 while TnT beat Netherland Antilles to finish second with 3 pts behind Haiti.

Regarding which team was better in and around 73, check those two teams records for that period. In the preliminaries, Haiti beat TnT 6-4 on aggregate.

Trini complaint about the Haiti match came only after they surprisingly destroyed Mexico while Haiti, which was already qualified, lost to the same team. TnT officials pretended they would have won the tournament if the referees were not too biased against them. They failed to see the big picture.

However, I do not want to take anything from that TnT 73 team. It was a great team. But, it seems Trinidadians have never changed. The team played inconsistently. They lost to Honduras but they beat Mexico 4-0

Haiti robbed T&T and that is a fact. Had we been given those 3 (thats THREE) disallowed goals we would ahve easily won the group and gone to Germany.

That is a fact no matter how you twist it.

Look at those scores and see which team was the dominant team in 1973!!!!

Besides Haiti you keep harping on the hon score..look carefully, that was our first game, after that we were rampant in the tourney, only to be denied by a thieving ref and linesmen who were subsequently banned for life after the game!

why do you think the refs were banned?

quote:

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Haiti went to the WC with 8 points, T&T came second with 6 and Mexico 3rd with 6 points also.
Haiti robbed T&T and that is a fact. Had we been given those 3 (thats THREE) disallowed goals we would ahve easily won the group and gone to Germany.

That is a fact no matter how you twist it.

Now add the disallowed goals and check yuh aggregrate now!

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I also would be one who would love to see this game. Man always tell me that this Trini side was/is the best thing ever to come out of Trinidad.

quote:

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Originally posted by truetrini:
[B]Haiti went to the WC with 8 points, T&T came second with 6 and Mexico 3rd with 6 points also.

Haiti robbed T&T and that is a fact. Had we been given those 3 (thats THREE) disallowed goals we would ahve easily won the group and gone to Germany.
B]

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Funny. It was 2 pts for a victory, not 3. It seems to me that it's a trini thing to deny their opponents' merit in order to make themselves look good. BTW, I wonder if you ever had a chance to watch a replay of that match.

quote:

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Originally posted by DutchMan:
Boy, every Trini I talk to remind me of the Haitian highway robbery of 1973/74.

I also would be one who would love to see this game. Man always tell me that this Trini side was/is the best thing ever to come out of Trinidad.

Respect.

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In the preliminaries, Haiti beat that TnT team 4-0 in the first leg and a reservist team almost tied TnT in the second leg. Was that team as good as trinis love to brag about it? TnT had to go to a play-off in order to get to the hex. They had some quality players like Warren Archibald, but overall the team was NOT as good as the losers think.

Panama had a great GC and finished 2nd. Does that make them a great team in the region? Same thing happened in 1973. Check four years later how those two teams fare in the next hex!

quote:

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Originally posted by haitiball:
In the preliminaries, Haiti beat that TnT team 4-0 in the first leg and a reservist team almost tied TnT in the second leg. Was that team as good as trinis love to brag about it? TnT had to go to a play-off in order to get to the hex. They had some quality players like Warren Archibald, but overall the team was NOT as good as the losers think.

Panama had a great GC and finished 2nd. Does that make them a great team in the region? Same thing happened in 1973. Check four years later how those two teams fare in the next hex!

[This message has been edited by haitiball (edited 11-09-2005).]

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I do think that you are sadly mistaken.

In the prelims we played these teams:

10-NOV-72 - TRI 11 vs 1 ATG.
19-NOV-72 - ATG 1 vs 2 TRI.
28-NOV-72 - TRI 2 vs 1 SUR.
30-NOV-72 - SUR 1 vs 1 TRI.

There were NO play offs. We beat every team on the way.

where are you getting your "facts?" I hope you are NOT just making stuff up bro.

10-Nov-1972: Trinidad & Tobago 11 - 1 Antigua & Barbuda (WCQ).
SCORERS: (Steve David 42nd, 70th, 79th, Noel Llewellyn 19th, 38th, 44th, Raymond Roberts 83rd, 89th, Leroy Spann 49th, 68th, Leo Brewster 59th).
SQUAD: Kelvin Barclay, Russell Tesheira, Winston Phillips, Selwyn Murren, Raymond Moraldo (Henry Dennie 66th), Sydney Augustine, Leroy Spann, Clibert Lennard, Noel Llewellyn (Raymond Roberts 74th), Steve David, Leo Brewster.

19-Nov-1972: Antigua & Barbuda 1 - 2 Trinidad & Tobago (WCQ).
SCORERS: (Noel Llewellyn 10th, Steve David 30th).
SQUAD: Gerald Figeroux, Winston Phillips, Henry Dennie, Raymond Moraldo, Selwyn Murren, Desmond Headley, Noel Llewellyn, Leroy Spann, Steve David, Leo Brewster (Warren Archibald 46th), Clibert Lennard (Raymond Roberts 67th).

28-Nov-1972: Surinam 1 - 2 Trinidad & Tobago (WCQ).
SCORERS: Leo Brewster 63rd,, Raymond Roberts 68th.
SQUAD: Gerald Figeroux, Winston Phillips, Victor McGill, Leroy Spann, Desmond Headley (Sydney Augustine 74th), Selwyn Murren, Raymond Moraldo, Steve David, Leo Brewster, Noel Llewellyn, Clibert Lennard (Raymond Roberts 61st).

30-Nov-1972: Trinidad & Tobago 1 - 1 Surinam (WCQ).
SCORER: Steve David 75th.
SQUAD: Gerald Figeroux, Victor McGill, Winston Phillips, Selwyn Murren, Raymond Moraldo, Leroy Spann, Desmond Headley (Raymond Roberts 70th), Leo Brewster, Steve David, Clibert Lennard (Sydney Augustine 53rd), Noel Llewellyn.

29-Nov-1973: Honduras 2 - 1 Trinidad & Tobago (WCQ).
SCORER: Steve David 61st.
SQUAD: Kelvin Barclay, Russell Tesheira, Winston Phillips, Selwyn Murren, Lawrence Rondon, Everald Cummings, Leon Carpette, Dennis Morgan, Steve David, Warren Archibald, Raymond Roberts (Leo Brewster 77th).

1973: Haiti 2 - 1 Trinidad & Tobago - (WCQ), 4th, December.
SCORER: Steve David 15th.
SQUAD: Kelvin Barclay, Lawrence Rondon, Selris Figaro, Selwyn Murren, Winston Phillips, Dennis Morgan, Anthony Douglas, Everld Cummings, Steve David, Raymond Roberts (Wilfred Cave 83rd), Warren Archibald.

1973: Trinidad & Tobago 1 - 0 Guatemala (WCQ), 10th, December.
SCORER: Steve David 30th.
SQUAD: Kelvin Barclay, Lawrence Rondon, Selris Figaro, Selwyn Murren, Winston Phillips, Dennis Morgan, Everald Cummings, Anthony Douglas, Steve David, Raymond Roberts (Steve Khan 70th), Warren Archibald.

1973: Trinidad & Tobago 4 - 0 Mexico (WQC), 14th, December.
SCORERS: Everald Cummings 11th, 39th, Steve David 52nd, Warren Archibald 62nd.
SQUAD: Kelvin Barclay, Russell Tesheira (Raymond Moraldo 81st), Selwyn Murren, Selris Figaro, Lawrence Rondon, Everald Cummings, Dennis Morgan, Anthony Douglas, Steve David, Steve Kahn (Sydney Augustine 74th), Warren Archibald.

When will the dream become reality? Will survivors of the generation that started the challenge in 1974 live to be part of the celebrations when T&T finally qualifies for a World Cup?

Many have said that T&T’s best chance was in 1973 when we scored five goals against home team Haiti and four were disallowed.

T&T eventually finished second in that tournament and Haiti qualified for the Germany finals as the lone representative from the region.

Others believe 1989 was even better. We went into the final game of the tournament in front of our home crowd needing a draw, but lost to the United States 1-0. We finished third behind Costa Rica and the USA, who both represented the region in Italy 1990.

Now, the dream of being in Germany has returned for a third time.

Already three teams have qualified from the region—the USA, Costa Rica and Mexico. This time, thanks to Fifa vice-president Austin Jack Warner, the region can have four representatives if T&T beats Bahrain in the upcoming matches on Saturday and next Wednesday.

Can T&T be lucky this third time around—48 years since its bid to reach the World Cup finals kicked-off?

It was in 1973, in Haiti, we created history!

Not only did T&T defeat the mighty Mexicans team 4-0 and forced supporters of the Mexicans to stone them with tomatoes at the airport on their return home, but T&T also scored five goals against the host country, Haiti, four of which were disallowed by the Canadian referee. He was later banned from the sport for life. (Haitiball ask yourself why)

The records show that we eventually lost to Haiti 1-2 and thus did not qualify for the finals in (West) Germany.

Haiti was the Caribbean representative on that occasion.

For the record, during that qualifying campaign in Port-au-Prince, T&T defeated Mexico 4-0 under the guidance of English coach Kevin Verity and his assistant, T&T’s Edgar Vidale.

The main Mexican midfielder back then was Manuel Lapuente who coached the team here in 2001 when they defeated T&T during the 2002 campaign.

Another Mexican who was a member of that team was Enrique Borja, who became the president of the Mexican Football Federation also in 2001.

Sixteen years later, on Sunday, November 19, 1989, the USA was our target, our ticket to Italia 1990.

Needing just one point, to start making preparations to be the first English-speaking country to play on the biggest sporting stage in the world, T&T lost 1-0 in front of approximately 30,000 red-clad and very silent fans.

And the dream was again put on hold.

Sixteen years later, its a different scenario after Fifa decided against increasing the number of qualifying teams from both Asia and Concacaf by one each, the governing body for the sport decided that both confederations will get a half-spot in which its fourth place teams after the final qualifying round will meet in a play-off and the winner will go to Germany as one of the 32 finalists.

T&T finished fourth in Concacaf with 13 points and Bahrain was fourth in Asia after edging past Uzbekistan in the Asian play-off on an away goal.

Bahrain will visit the Caribbean for the first leg on Saturday before welcoming T&T to Manama four days later for a match that, for one team or the other, will see the realisation of a dream for the first time.

In a sense, Bahrain have already achieved the improbable. The sight of their coach, Luka Peruzovic, shedding tears in the post-match celebrations after their goalless draw in Manama had secured victory on away goals told its own story.

For T&T, the return to national duty for two sons, Dwight Yorke, the captain, and Russell Latapy; as well as Dutch coach Leo Beenhakker, have so far helped revived a nation’s dream of qualifying for its first World Cup.

Can it be third time lucky? In one week’s time, the answer will be known.

quote:

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Originally posted by truetrini:
yes it was 2 points for a win...and your point is?

listen, i have no beef with you other than the fact that you are ignoring the truth.

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You sound like Haiti and TnT played each other in a final showdown in which the winner would have qualified for Germany 73 and Haiti, unable to beat TnT, paid a Canadian referee to help them win the match. How absurd! Haiti beat TnT 4-0 a few month earlier!!!!!!!!!!! It likes you are saying that the current Jamaican team needs the help of a referee to beat your current TnT team in Kingston, Jamaica!

The truth is Haiti played TnT in the beginning of the competition. Haiti had 2/2pts while TnT had 0/2pt. Why would we need the help of a referee to beat a team that we beat 4-0 not long ago and watched that same average team lose their first match to Honduras.

As to which team was better, consider this fact: 4 years later Haiti finished 2nd in Mexico while that SO GOOD TnT team didn't even make the HEX as they were stopped by Surinam 3-2 in a playoff. In the first round, they also had to go to a playoff against Barbados, which beat them 2-1. Facts? you got them!

As I said before, I think it's silly to continue this discussion. I am not even sure you have ever watched the match. You are probably just repeating what Warner and other TnT officials make you believe. No wonder Haiti was forced to pay $ 5000 fine for simply claiming that it should have the right to play its 'home game' at home OR in a third country!!! You guys hate us for our past success

TT, you can believe whatever you want. We have made it and we wish your team will make it next year

Take care.

hahahaha

Haiti beat T&T 6-0 a year before in Concacaf championship...there was never a 4-0 and there were certainly no prelim meetings between the two teams.

That is still unnecessary hate.

Why deny Trini it's time in the spotlight.

Man like Latapy and Yorke deserve it.

You as a Jamaican have more in common with a Trini, if you are pulling for Bahrain in this game as a Caribbean man, shame on you.

You have nothing in common with the average Bahrainian or whatever they are called.

I man can't tell you who to support but if you are against Trini in this game it is purely for selfish reasons.

Jamaica had their day, so did Haiti. This week is Trini's week to prove that they belong, if not it will all just be talk.

It is time to put aside the foolish differences and pull for your Caribbean brother.

Good luck Trinidad, from the heart, as an island man!