I was having a conversation with a friend regarding criket and the quest was should Jamaica remain apart of the West indies. We discussed, with our limitd knowledge the colonial ties in bunching all the iles together to form the WI Criket Team. Then i asked what if Jamaica actually becomes a Republic, and cut ties with England, would that affect the union that is the WI Criket Team? He said no, since Guyana and Trinidad are Republics. I responded by saying they are Republics that have chosen to maintain ties with the Commonwealth.
So, my question to you guys are; If Jamaica actually becomes a Republic AND cut Commonwealth status with England, can the WI Criket Tean still include JAMAICA? Or, is the WI Criket Team purely a function of Caricom partnering?
I have ALWAYS been in favor of a JAMAICAN team in all sports independently. While i think Jamaica would struggle against some opponents, i would rather see them struggle rather that being appart of alliances like WI criket team.
I admit that I didn't fully read your post. I made my post to say that T&T is a republic but haven't cut their ties to WI cricket as a way of saying that being a republic has nothing to do with WI cricket.
WI cricket predates Caricom so being a part of Caricom is irrelevant as well (Haiti is part of caricom but i don't think they would be considered for WI cricket even if they were able to produce a decent cricketer :))
WI cricket has very little/nothing to do with commonwealth either WI cricket predates the "commonwealth". WI cricket is here now simply because of it's historical antecedent the British West Indies' cricket team. The BWI no longer exists, the West Indies cricket team is really just carrying on the legacy of BWI cricket.
Thanks for that info...some of what you replied with were kinda what i was thinking. What caught me regarding the Republic thing, was a little bit of what Ms. Portia Simpson said on the topic...not that she had indicated anything regarding criket..But, more so that she felt it was time to cut ties and move on as a Fully independent nation. So, i was simply wandering....if JA went the route of Republic and cutting ties with the commonwealth also... And criket's relevance to Caricom, is more like a UNITY thing...Do you think(since you replied) that the desire to also cut ties to colonial pass, linked thur criket would be increased? Or, if you were in charge of Jamaican Criket, and from a political and national identity standpoint the nation is removing itself from these ties to its colonical pass would you do likewise? I said i would....Or, simply that this nationalistic move (becoming a republic and dropping the commonwealth status) would make me less interested in being apart of the WI criket team...
Right now the Monarch , queen ElizabethII is the queen - the head of state of Jamaica. How does Jamaica benefit from this relationship? If it meant that Jamaican workers could work in England or visit without visa etc. it might have been ok. Right now there is no benefit as i see it (not counting whipping everyone at the commonwealth games in Track and Field).
The truth is, well as I see it, Jamaica going independence in 1962 really just meant a trasfer of power and control of Jamaica from the hands of the British to the hands of the Americans; the same is true for much of the old British empire. WWII cost Britain it's top dog status and America basically forced them open up their colonial markets for the benefit of America.
America has replaced Britain/England when it comes to the dominant influence in Jamaican politics, culture and ownership ( of hotels, industries, capital etc.) so if Jamaica were to drop out of WI cricket then cricket would basically die in Jamaica and replaced probably with baseball.
The death of criket is very much possible, as you put it, but replaying it with my beloved boring baseball. I highly doubt that. Basketball...:)) now thats a very real possibility..lol
Maybe, because i am not a die hard Criket fan, why i would rather see Jamaica go it alone. Without any major proof, i just feel that we are being short changed when it come to selection for the WI team, in the name of reginal representation...Republic or no Republic...
Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 3772
Loc: just roun'd di cahna
Offline
You guys are funny,cricket will never die in JA. The game is still quite strong and we should not confuse the fact that WI being crap with the death of cricket in JA.
_________________________
Man with money meets a man with experience, man with experience ends up with more money.
Why Jamaica should go it a lone in Cricket? They have won 5 straight titles and only one player Marlon Samuels was in test team to England. How is this possible?!? When the bajans were dominant like Jamaica is now, half the test team would be Bajans. Wasnt Jamaica able to break away from the British west indies in Track & Field?
We are the biggest of the english speaking Islands and we produce best athletes. We rule Track & field, Netball, Cricket, Football and now Basketball. I bet any amount of money if they were to make all the above sports into a West indies thing like Cricket jamaica will have the least amount of players represented. Jamaica gets no respect from these smaller isles. they are kicking dirt in our faces and will continue to so until we start fighting back. The eastern caribbean isles are dictating cricket policy now, so Jamaica is doomed as far as West indies Criket is concerned.
You guys are funny,cricket will never die in JA. The game is still quite strong and we should not confuse the fact that WI being crap with the death of cricket in JA.
I was being sarcastic with Dread on the death thing..Even though i have some concerns about test criket and 4days matches and todays youths desire for quick results.
Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 3772
Loc: just roun'd di cahna
Offline
Originally Posted By: Karl
Originally Posted By: jray
You guys are funny,cricket will never die in JA. The game is still quite strong and we should not confuse the fact that WI being crap with the death of cricket in JA.
I was being sarcastic with Dread on the death thing..Even though i have some concerns about test criket and 4days matches and todays youths desire for quick results.
Ahhh gotcha.
_________________________
Man with money meets a man with experience, man with experience ends up with more money.
Why Jamaica should go it a lone in Cricket? They have won 5 straight titles and only one player Marlon Samuels was in test team to England. How is this possible?!? When the bajans were dominant like Jamaica is now, half the test team would be Bajans. Wasnt Jamaica able to break away from the British west indies in Track & Field?
We are the biggest of the english speaking Islands and we produce best athletes. We rule Track & field, Netball, Cricket, Football and now Basketball. I bet any amount of money if they were to make all the above sports into a West indies thing like Cricket jamaica will have the least amount of players represented. Jamaica gets no respect from these smaller isles. they are kicking dirt in our faces and will continue to so until we start fighting back. The eastern caribbean isles are dictating cricket policy now, so Jamaica is doomed as far as West indies Criket is concerned.
And interestingly besides Chanderpaul WI best batsmen are Jamaicans, Gayle & Samuels. The top order bat being dismal in the past 3 test.
By the way WI coming to Fort Lauderdale (Broward regional park, sunrise) June 29 & 30 and I'll be there along with my brothers.
You guys are funny,cricket will never die in JA. The game is still quite strong and we should not confuse the fact that WI being crap with the death of cricket in JA.
I was being sarcastic with Dread on the death thing..Even though i have some concerns about test criket and 4days matches and todays youths desire for quick results.
Hehheh, glad that I could make you laugh...
Cricket is already a dying sport around the world and wont take much to speed up it's death. The WI cricket team is the main reason why it is still relevant in Jamaica and the former BWI. Cricket in Jamaica is far less relevant now than it was 20-30 years ago and was far less relevant then than it was 20 years prior.
I think many people/fans are turned off buy the recent results of the WI team, the limited jamaicans on board compared to the hay days and the lenght of the games.
International need more participating teams...Less test Matches and more 20/20, 30/30 or whatever that are limited overs.
I think international cricket would be better served having Jamaica in it's worldcup rather than Bermuda. While Bermuda does not play T-Cricket or One matches, they did participate in the WC, compared to JAM which has a legitimate cricket history and could participate competitively, even if its only against the SirLankas, Keyans, Zimbabwes, Irelands and Bangladeshs of the world...even its its just in ONE DAY Matches
Right now the Monarch , queen ElizabethII is the queen - the head of state of Jamaica. How does Jamaica benefit from this relationship? If it meant that Jamaican workers could work in England or visit without visa etc. it might have been ok. Right now there is no benefit as i see it (not counting whipping everyone at the commonwealth games in Track and Field).
The truth is, well as I see it, Jamaica going independence in 1962 really just meant a trasfer of power and control of Jamaica from the hands of the British to the hands of the Americans; the same is true for much of the old British empire. WWII cost Britain it's top dog status and America basically forced them open up their colonial markets for the benefit of America.
America has replaced Britain/England when it comes to the dominant influence in Jamaican politics, culture and ownership ( of hotels, industries, capital etc.) so if Jamaica were to drop out of WI cricket then cricket would basically die in Jamaica and replaced probably with baseball.
Jamaica would benefit more with having own team. More players can be expose and gain contracts with 20/20 clubs worldwide and though it may take years to be test cricket team, in the long run, Jamaica having own team in cricket is win, win situation for the country. The benefits of being apart of England empire has expire. Now Jamaicans are required to have visa to enter to England. Time is now to become a republic and form our own cricket team to compete world wide.
Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 3772
Loc: just roun'd di cahna
Offline
Originally Posted By: ddread
Originally Posted By: Karl
Originally Posted By: jray
You guys are funny,cricket will never die in JA. The game is still quite strong and we should not confuse the fact that WI being crap with the death of cricket in JA.
I was being sarcastic with Dread on the death thing..Even though i have some concerns about test criket and 4days matches and todays youths desire for quick results.
Hehheh, glad that I could make you laugh...
Cricket is already a dying sport around the world and wont take much to speed up it's death. The WI cricket team is the main reason why it is still relevant in Jamaica and the former BWI. Cricket in Jamaica is far less relevant now than it was 20-30 years ago and was far less relevant then than it was 20 years prior.
So how do you explain the IPL? Baseball is even less popular world wide than cricket - no?
Edited by jray (06/23/1201:27 PM)
_________________________
Man with money meets a man with experience, man with experience ends up with more money.
My reply, interesting to read DD's. I think every nation has its 2-3, maybe 4 or 5 main sports. USA has American Football, Baseball, and NBA and Hockey. Football is in America to stay.
IPL (if you mean Indian Professional League), The India, has Cricket, Field Hockey, Soccer/Tennis,
Australia has Aussi Rules football, Cricket, Soccer, Baseball..and any water/beach sports.
My point is, India, and Australia and new Zealand are uniquely Cricket..in my opinion. Jamaica, is so infiltrated with American/worldly influences,that the decline of cricket isn't a surprise to me. Jamaica in Football, Track&Field, Netball, Cricket and growing Basketball country. Baseball is a longshot in JA.
Baseball is far less popular worldwide than cricket - no arguments here but if you remove India and pakistan it would be right up there with badminton.
What you fail to recognize or not taking into account is the growing influence of American TV, social networking sites etc. is having culture on Jamaican culture. One other thing that is reshaping Jamaican culture in a serious way is the amount of Jamaicans living in the US that goes back and forth.
It won't take long for Jamaican kids wathching US tv to realize that with baseball you can get a decent scholarship to top colleges in the US. I won't even mention the prospects of playing MLB and the crazy $multimillion contracts offered to top players. Baseball requires similar skills as cricket and if you are really good at cricket you can learn baseball.
I am not a baseball fan but i find that i yawn just as much watching a cricket match. Cricket to me has always been a sport to read about. It is soo much easier to read that Gayle bat 2 centuries than it is to watch it - but that's just me.
Baseball sadlly is dying among African americans...I think its the quick reward mentality. So many guy spend their careers in the minors and you never hear of them. The invasion on Latin(Panamain, PR, DR, Venezulans and Cuban(to lesser extent, when the jump ship) These countries with the exception of Venezuela all consider Baseball their National sports, and MLB, has been invaded players from countries like DR, with MLB teams setting up academies all over the place in these countries. These latin guys, see the fame, and fortunes that baseball can bring and at a young age they eat, sleep and dream baseball.
Baseball among blacks in the USA is declining at a alarming rate. Something i find interesting from a financial standpoint. MLB contracts are all guaranteed and NFL contracts are not (except the signing bonus). MLB saleries are way higher that NBA players, Soccer stars internationally, yet blacks, who when they play, seem to have exceptional talents. Speed (Ricky Henderson) Power (Bonds, Griffy, Hank Aron, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson...etc) Pitcher (Gooden, Price of current Tampa Bay, Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson. Yet Blacks find the game boring. I am the only one among my friends who would consider himself a true baseball fan. My friends are Yankee, Phillies, Jays..etc fans, but don't really attend or watch many games, they just know whats up, because of ESPN. the highest paid players in the world...on contract...not endorsements are baseball players. A-Rod 28mill per year, Pujols 26mil, joey votto 24mil price fielder 24mil
