Originally posted by shaggybear: I don't see what point you are trying to make about Beverly Hills and Zimbabwe, but I will venture a guess and posit that Shaggy won his award in America. If I remember how Billboard does things it is based on record sales (unimportant regardless). If the man in Zimbabwe can break out of the mire he is in due primarily to England, America, and Australia's refusal to stop raping Zimbabwe of its gold, diamonds and other natural resources (another argument) then maybe he can afford to buy that CD. Until then, it is Buffy in Beverly Hills who is buying the records (because she can afford it).
As an aside I will tell you when I go to dancehall session in London, is NUFF Nigerian I see out there.
Have you ever heard of the cassette tape, vinyl? I am certain reggae doesn't sell well with those either, and they are cheaper than the CD. In fact, the majority of dancehall is still being produced on vinyl, which many Africans I am sure can afford, along with the cassette tapes.
Please be advised that no one is saying that the reggae artists should give up their patois. But try and appeal to everybody. Why not make albums for the Caribbean market, and also the wider international market? Ziggy Marley and his crew does that.
I think some of us have different interpretations of what it means to be an artist. I also think Mike U has missed the point -- now there's a surprise. I won't get into it now, maybe later. I can't rinse out my likke free time on this.
Anyway, You point about record vinyl tape whatever is still of no import. Tell me how you think it applies and I will tell you why you are off target.
Incidentally, I don't know that vinyl is cheaper than CD's nowadays, considering you don't see much vinyl out there. I won't disagree that much of the dancehall music out there is on vinyl, but I will agree only to the extent you are talking about DJ's and music selectors (man like Raymention can answer that better than I). Outside of the D.J.s I would say that exactly the OPPOSITE of what you have said is true. Virtually EVERYTHING is on CD.
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Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
The classic 45, the small record, u remember it... vinyl as U call it...Did U know Japan big in a dancehall...??? (maybe the patois easier fi dem fi understand..mi nuh know)
Have U ever heard of cassette ninja...???
Cant be bothered to explain if U dont..ask a jamaican... Cassettes,CD's,cdr's,mini discs,vinyl,dat,dvd...any media form U can think of has its use today...But with a CDr and a cd writer, and most cars and hifi systems carrying a CD player..only dinosaurs should be still using cassettes...Mainly DJ's and vinyl junkies buy records.... The music purchasing public are pushed to buy albums... When Shaggy first released it wasn't me..it was released on album...That alone big up his sales...Basically paying $15-$20 for just one tune as opposed to if he released it on single first which would of cost $5 or less. But lets consider the music charts they give us...Is it really true that all songs reach number one within days of release or is it just a hype to let us all make sure we have a copy of the number one tune or most popular tune...
But when I said kids I meant teenagers, but since U are referring to kids just remember they will sing anything...remember the song zim zimmer, who have the keys to my bimmer...WHO AM I...and mi know everyman know the next line...a who sing dat again Tman...
And only the street kids understand all what is said in hip hop... Hip hop and rap is popular now bcoz the record companies are now pushing it onto the main stream... Music mongols now see the potential,They include them in adverts,films...etc..Play it on the radio stations,in the clubs...its mixed with fashion.,trainers(sneakers)etc etc...
Herbie will love this part... unuh Remember the Beastie Boys... Vanilla Ice...now them give wi Eminem...All these white bwoys are considered great and the best thing since slice bread...We invent it and now the whites are better than the blacks...Then all of a sudden white people know bout rap and hip hop... The same thing happen back in the days when Jazz just lick the scene,and when other music forms lick...Mek a white man sing two reggae tune and see how quick it reach the charts....
Later on, I will give U lyrics from a soca tune,a ragga tune,a reggae tune, an RnB tune,a hip hop tune,a pop tune,a country and western and anyhing U can think of...just to prove that it is not english that sells records,personality,marketing and a catchy chorus and possibly a wicked video will more help U...nuff radio prime time play and advertising...
When some one dont know the lyrics of a tune but like it very much, they will go out of their way to learn them..How quick we forget when we were kids and would sing what we think we hear rather than what has really been sung.
Herb Luva ::"Next time U decide fi cut a tune..Just remember... I mek the hits... I tell the DJ's what to play"
Go figure!!!!! Here's a clue....jamaican movie...
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They make the world so hard
jt: Mek a white man sing two reggae tune and see how quick it reach the charts....
doesn't even have to be white, even yellow, patois and all, yuh jus need a label w/mullah to push it down the radio djs throat till it run #1 fi 12 weeks strait
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One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
I'm not really a dancehall music supporter, however I'll say this: as one of the I'tes dem put it, a question was answered that was not asked by Tman. nevertheless, though not a supporter of this musical style in the greater sense, from what I have read about Shaggy he's a well organized and well produced artist. I think also too much emphasis has being placed on an award. The reason being, there is no life standard to these awards except music sales. Therefore you'll have artist's who are promoting and condoning all kinds of weird lifestyles, that none of you Ites would sugbscribe to who are being awarded. So much for a piece of stature. It will all go up in smoke in the "short" run and only what one has done for his fellow man that will cause the Almighty to remmember you and have mercy.
Yes the Almighty has said in the scriptures that he will save some, actually snatching them out of the fire because dem hard of hearing (Ist Corinthians chap. 3:15). Saving someone out of the fire is like someone contracting a deadly disease such as Aids, and on his death bed call out to the Lord Jesus to save him, just like the thief on the cross did. Let me ask the Ites dem, a so you want to come to God? check dis......
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Good topic!!! Good points being made by all the man dem....except when someone calls for Dancehall music to be done in English. That's calling for an end to Dancehall music.
DJ music was never designed to listen to while you are relaxing and meditating at home on a sunday evening. That is Bob Marley stuff. You need to be rocking to this music to enjoy it. Hence DJ music tends to appeal to the younger audience and can never be delivered any different from how it is presently delivered.
Most foreigner who listen to DJ/Dancehall music don't care what the hell the DJ is saying. They just love rock to the Rhythm and enjoy how the artist rides (sidung pon) it.
Remember the "Bomb Bye Bye in a B...y man head" by Buju. This song was very popular among the gay community until someone explained the lyrics to them.
Tell me how much of you guys understand the the US country youth from St. Louis called 'Nelly'.
Remember that white guy Snow...Him was a work the patois as best he could and him sell NUFF records. He was destroying the charts in the U.S.
Nuff yard man all sing wid him after that and him get likkle more credibility because of it. There, a man singing in patois a make nuff money doing it (of course the fact that he was white played a large role).
BUT!!!!!! He was not a yard man...and he could not maintain it because it was not his culture. So the stuff he did dropped off.
Another thing that I note and it came to me because JT brought it up. That song by beenie man Who am I was number one on Power 96 for a while. Patois and everything.
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Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
Yes the Almighty has said in the scriptures that he will save some, actually snatching them out of the fire because dem hard of hearing (Ist Corinthians chap. 3:15). Saving someone out of the fire is like someone contracting a deadly disease such as Aids, and on his death bed call out to the Lord Jesus to save him, just like the thief on the cross did. Let me ask the Ites dem, a so you want to come to God? check dis......
heh heh Gwaan thru mi brethren.
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Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
Yes JT I know dancehall is big in Japan, but how big? How many Japanese are actually listening to the music, and what are the record sales compared to other art forms? The sales is what I care about.
Rhythm alone cannot sell music. The fact still remains, reggae does not sell nearly as well as it should, and doesn't sell as well the major art forms, and I believe the language can help.
People listen to reggae in some of the clubs here in NYC because you can dance to it. But do they buy in the same numbers? No, and I can attest to that.
[This message has been edited by MikeU (edited 12-08-2001).]
I am the biggest fan of Patwa and I very much support Jamaican artists using it as the language of choice to lay down their lyrics if they so choose. I certainly find Patwa to be more expressive and dynamic than the Queens English. The real truth is that the whole dancehall/hip hop thing now is a feel good industry. Very few are looking for inspirational lyrics when they go to the clubs. Most just want to have a good time. Bad marketing and very poor PR is doing more to inhibit the growth of reggae/dancehall than the language the music is in. What language you use to deliver your lyrics is one thing but how you express yourself internationally in the promotion of yourself, your album and the music in general is another.
Now Shaggybear thinks that its narrow minded and short sighted to expect a DJ who has made a name for himself in Jamaica and want to make an international impact, to learn how to express himself in an interview so that he can be understood by an international audience? Remember English is the primary vehicle that Jamaica communicates with the rest of the world. If you were hustling for food and didn’t get an ideal education you should be restricted for the rest of your life by that, even though you now role around in a Benz and food is in abundance? That’s what is called low expectations.
So it would be narrow minded if the football authorities hold some seminars for Jamaicans players improve their skills in projecting and expressing themselves so that when they go off to distance lands to make their living (as ambassadors of Jamaica), they can give a decent interview? Big successful artists and movie stars who had ideal upbringing do it so what’s wrong with an ambitious DJ doing so? Or maybe a DJ from the ghetto (an un-ideal upbringing) shouldn’t have any aspirations or ambitions beyond the corridors of Jamaica? In other words it would be prudent for a up coming DJ to go on the major US networks (as they are known to do) and speak patwa that the interviewer and the people in TV land can’t understand because he had a un-ideal upbringing? And that will catapult his career?
Are you saying that you should always restrict yourself base on the environs/situation from which you came? Are you really defending the local artist are dissing them? Low expectations. I am hoping you are not saying what I think you are saying. Because if you are, the only thing narrow minded and short sighted is your own views on the issue. I have no problem with an artist considering himself a local singer or DJ and working only for a local audience. But if you are trying to make it big internationally you have to learn how to reach out to an international audience. If more of our DJ treated the industry as a profession and not a platform to show people how wicked they are, they and dancehall music would be a lot better off.
[This message has been edited by Topnotch (edited 12-08-2001).]
MikeU..I think Topnotch point is good. Thats probably where Tman went wrong. Dancehall is dancehall...People dance, listen and love it who are into it... To promote themselves, whosoever or whichever artists has ambitions to make it big will have to agree with Topnotch...in terms of interviews and promoting..But lyrics-wise makes no difference... music, like fashion is an art form...not everybody can lick the same styles and not everyone likes the same styles.
Lukas...hip hop artists kicking it for me right now are Keith Murray, JaRule and Missy. I love listening to Guru also....
I like the carpenters more than the Beetles....
But if guys who dont know about ragga/reggae and listen to what Tman is saying, they will believe that every DJ sing about Gun. Just like rap, we have social commentators,comedians,slackness,anti this and anti that.....etc etc....
[This message has been edited by jt (edited 12-08-2001).]
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They make the world so hard
every individual cultural art form should retain it's purity and originality and not be compromised for the sake of profits. we must realized that Jamaica's DJ's, DJ both in patois and in english. It has more to do with nitch marketing than with language as far as international popularity is concern. Although when the music's lyrics are understood by a foreign crowd it will help your sales but never a guarantee to large sales.
the right song, the right connection and good marketing are the main ingredients to good sales.
one of the reasons why I stress cultural purity is because certain DJ's sound better in patois, over certain tune. and on the other hand some DJ's do better with plain english. In other words, the artist must continue to be himself in his work.
I won't get into it now, maybe later. I can't rinse out my likke free time on this.
Gwaan thru mi brethren.
