Now a see dat all you want is fi di reggae artist to sell out dem culture so that others can understand. Well like Miss Lou sey "Patois is the language of Jamaicans". Do you see Pavorati singing opera in English, no but people love it the same. So why should dancehall be sung in English. Your arguement just further illustrates why dem sell out Marcus Garvey fi rice & peas and later on everybody a idolize him as the great man he is. Just like if di DJ dem sell out the music fi $$$$, you'll be here saying boy mi miss old time dancehall DJ dem.
My youth what work fi Shaggy is fi Shaggy dont try force it pon another man. If you love Shaggy listen to him dont try mold everybody into his image. Me love dancehall di way it is and if an artist sing a tune mi nuh like mi just dont listen to it or buy it, maybe you should do the same.
Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 611
Loc: London, England
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Perry Boy, Wha kinda ediat argument dat? Yu mean every Ja artist wha sing in English is a sell out? Including Bob, Jimmy Cliff, Burning Spear, etc, etc, etc? Or that dancehall can only be dancehall if it in patwa? Me nuh waan mek over any one in the mould of Shaggy, all mi a say is, if yu waan mek it internationally, you havefi sing whey people can understand. And even if yu sing bout girl u cann disrespect woman. As fe BBoys, u haffi leave dem out the argument (remember wha happen to Shabba?). And gun talk strickly out.Yu hear any other artist in the world a sing bout gun in that way? If yu a talk bout liberation and revolution like Bob, now that is a different story. Don’t get mi wrong, mi love some of the dancehall still, but me is from the old school dat like tune wid meaning, not whole heap a bangarag. As fe the argument bout Pavorotti and opera, it is always sung in Italian you dont havefi understand it, centuries of tradition there. “Play I on the R&B, I want all my people to see” – Marley
so wi settle seh Bob nuh have any successor out there right yah now, Cool
but this english fi international audience ting; dancehall a play and sell a Japan, China, the buyers not complaining - and Rap loaded with sex and guns and let the truth be told Guidance cannot understand most a di rap music, but the buyers not complaining.
so it seems a nuh yardman alone a sing/DJ bout the vices of our time in their language It is a choice made by artist and influenced by the label. If reggae or dancehall had the money backing that rap has, language would not come into the equation
hello somebody?
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"I'm almost as dumb as the dumb a$$ listening to my $hit the only difference he's wasting more money" - Eminem , "I just chat what I see in a way you understand me , and I don't give a fôrk about anything...wha what anything" - Eminem...
You answer me question but you still dont get it. But here it is plain and simple.
Dancehall is dancehall because it was made up by Jamaicans for Jamaicans. Just like opera you dont have to understand it to appreciate it. We have tradition also (whappen fi wi culture dont count). Check youself youth, you nuh see dancehall a play all over the world and people love it although dem nuh understand it so what kind of international exposure youth want.
I see your points Tman, but still think it is unfair...
The argument about Pavorotti is straight up... Internationally that is accepted bcoz they can feel it and create an understanding... Bob Marley like Shaggy was not fully accepted by Jamaicans at first (and I agree they are only comparable by monies) but a man like U that live in England should know that reggae, just like Garage music(American crew,Garage is comparable to chicago House music) will only be accepted by a few no matter what language it is song in...Bob Marley was lucky that he had some good lyrics and like Nat King Cole straight back to Luther Vandross has already coordinated nearly all the possible lyrics.So with the easy listening reggae beat and some good lyrics he was lucky. Music will never be the same as we old folk will always shout out to our kids and the younger generation, but what we should be doing is realising that if people didn't want it artists wouldn't produce it.What is unfortunate is that some of U have forgotten when U were young when ska,rock & roll and six million dances to learn... It is no different today... New generation, same street culture and its them that fuel music sales...
Just as U say Tman...Gregory, Dennis Brown, John Holt, Freddie McGregor,The Mighty Diamonds and a host of Lovers Rock artists in England sing in English...But how come they did not get recognised...Maybe all the french and Spanish people should forget about being internationally successful.
Certain Americans never had a clue what the street rappers were so noisy and rebellious about. Some still dont know.. Today Rap and Hip Hop so big. They didn't compromise themselves. Reggae is no different. U R just one of the Jamaicans who dont understand the noise and rebellion Tman..
Imagine what kind of world this would be if everyone sung love and message tunes...
Then again some of the songs that make it to number one in England are in English and still nuh mek sense...Then funny enough it makes the chart in Jamaica, we are forced to support their music but then told that ours is crap...
Here's a Bob Marley tune fi yu Tman... Could U B loved.... Tman said::As for being "poor peoples government", that only says poor people shouldnt aspire to better their condition but shoul ccept whatever is being dished out to them.:: JT reply:: Have U ever listened to any of Bounty Killers tunes???... He is saying a lot more than... Mr..lover lover...
Reggaeboy-uk, Garnett Silk I would consider next to Bob Marley rather than Sizzla. Sizzla is just hype. Merely bcoz they get tired of Capleton.
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Bob Marley like Shaggy was not fully accepted by Jamaicans at first
I was going to say that myself, because I heard it, but wasn't sure. Gwaan talk, cause if understanding what is being said is the key, then Bounty and Beenie would a nevah get play at session in the U.S. And I wouldn't listen to any Spanish song, and I wouldn't love that wicked Brazilian song "Lambada." I wouldn't listen to that German Rap CD that I have, and I wouldn't have seen Bounty Killer being interviewed on TV TWICE in Germany.
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I was about to side with Tman on the issue of Shaggy being an example to the other DJ's and then he played the language card. The Reggae beat is quite catchy to foreign ears but the freshness of the patwa is also something that people find attractive. Germany, Japan etc. Marley music does have great clarity but it wasn't all English. Nuff patwa. I do take your point though Tman that a lot of the other DJ's can learn a lot from Shaggy. If you are an entertainer then thats what you are. Be professional about it. Why as a man put out a hit tune he has to project himself as a shotta I don't know. Also while your lyrics is in patwa if your English isn't good take some classes so that you can give an inteligent interview in English for your international fans. Professional is the way to go.
[This message has been edited by Topnotch (edited 12-06-2001).]
#60355 - 12/06/0108:30 PMRe: Shaggy wins top Billboard honours
AnonymousAnonymous
Unregistered
My old adversary said:
Quote:
Then again some of the songs that make it to number one in England are in English and still nuh mek sense...Then funny enough it makes the chart in Jamaica, we are forced to support their music but then told that ours is crap...
Lay-off Jt! Who "forces" u to appreciate a particular type of music? Who tells you yours is crap? U makin' trouble again mi fren!
Your life has been fortunate. My wife is from Lithuania (an ex-Soviet state), so I understand what control REALLY means. Stop u bull****tin' dude, u don't know what control really is! Or maybe I've misunderstood u? Please clarify. And don't go gettin' personal now, u know I luv u really!
I am totally on the side of Tman and Reggaeboy_UK.
The other major art forms (R&B, rock, hip/hop) outsell reggae in Europe and Asia by a significant margin. I'm not even going to mention the rest of the world, esp. the U.S.
Only the English-speaking Caribbean (Jamaica esp.), and in the English-speaking Caribbean communities outside of the region, does reggae sells very, very well.
I have heard so many non-West Indians complain that the biggest reason they don't buy reggae is because the lyrics are not understandable.
While some people just buy music to dance to, most people want to listen and understand. Check the top 10 charts around the world.
Shaggy has made it because he has done what he should do, and his music reflects his move.
Shaggy is also nominated for “Best Male Artist” in the American Music Awards to be staged in January in Los Angeles.
Don't be surprised if one of his records are nominated for a Grammy “Record of the Year”, a first for a Jamaican outside of the “Reggae” category.
[This message has been edited by MikeU (edited 12-06-2001).]
A perfect chance for some of U to express your hate for reggae... What do U know about reggae music is what I want to ask certain man....
Do U really think its the big people who want to understand the lyrics that make certain artists big????? Its the kids who want to dance, the kids that want to sing no matter how silly the lyrics are.The kids that follow the hype of music,fashion and magazines are the ones that make shaggy big, its the record companies that break and make careers.
Pop music has nothing to do with language but more with what we are told we want to hear.
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Originally posted by jt: So how many people buy Soca music????
Do U really think its the big people who want to understand the lyrics that make certain artists big????? Its the kids who want to dance, the kids that want to sing no matter how silly the lyrics are.The kids that follow the hype of music,fashion and magazines are the ones that make shaggy big, its the record companies that break and make careers.
Pop music has nothing to do with language but more with what we are told we want to hear.
Ah, soca. They have the same problem as reggae, can't sell in big numbers outside of the Caribbean community. Soca artists has been accused of banality in the lyrics. Also the same “language” problem as reggae, although you can understand them a little bit better.
Still, it would help if the kids could follow along by singing. All the top “kid songs” "It Wasn't Me", (NSYNC etc.) are understandable.
[This message has been edited by MikeU (edited 12-06-2001).]
I second that jt.....and I first this...shaggy would not have / will never make it half as much as he did had/should he sing, dj, rap, chat, hip or whatever it is he calls that, in the Queen's English with lyrics of high moral standards and socially uplifting..NEVER. Many have tried what Bob has done....John Lennon thought he had it....Bob has dished out to the world the manna he received from Jah. Capleton , Sizzla and the Fire Bun Gang seem to have had their servings from other sources.None as yet to bring forth such a suculent and satisfactory a serving like that Bob gave the world. At least not persistently; considering the concurrent good harvest of Jimmy Cliff Dennis, Brown, etc to name a few.
This is foolishness. People are telling people to forget where they come from and tailor theie music to suit the needs of certain people. Is that foolishness or what.
If that is done all music will sound the same and we will lose originality and people will lose identity. Do you think those people sing just so people in Beverly hills can understand? Nonsense.
I even hear man talking about man must go to school to learn proper English. What a narrow minded short sighted view from a person who might just have more opportunity. SOME of those people singing come from backgrounds where they had to worry about many other things in addition to going to school...like finding food to eat.
What you are asking people to do is to give up their own culture and adopt one which is not theirs. You are saying...ignore you culture and your own people of backgrounds similar to your...sing for the people in Beverly Hills. Please!!! Talk sense.
The world and music are interesting because people are diverse. You are saying give up your diversity.
If everyone is singing for the king there would be no difference in anything eventually. I tell you what, why don't you invest some money in Jamaica so all our people can have stable homes and food to eat so they can focus on their school only...or on the things that they see on Ally McBeal, because that is what you are saying.
A person is a creature of his environment and he sings what he has learned, you are asking people not to be themselves but to be what you want them to be.
No surprise on the position taken by Mike U. That was expected. For the rest of you, maybe you should try to think from a broader perspective.
DI WHOLE A OONUH!!!!
Maybe we should all give up our dialect whether we are in JA, the U.S. or U.K. (or wherever). Talk sense.
I oonuh ever talk patois then your argument is contradicting what you are. If you don't then maybe you need to hold your corners because you don't know where people are coming from. Maybe you don't know where you are coming from and don't know the things that make Jamaica Jamaica...the land we love.
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Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 611
Loc: London, England
Offline
Perry Boy: “Dancehall is dancehall because it was made up by Jamaicans for Jamaicans. Just like opera you dont have to understand it to appreciate it. We have tradition also (whappen fi wi culture dont count). Check youself youth, you nuh see dancehall a play all over the world and people love it although dem nuh understand it so what kind of international exposure youth want.” OK so you want dancehall to be limited to only a Jamaican audience and not appreciated and understood by the rest of the world. Fine then dont complain when you only sell 2,000 records and dont get signed by big labels or make the charts anywhere. You living in a dream world if you think it is being played all over the world, yes in a limited amount in some small corner. I’m talking about mass audience and major chart success. When last did you see one of these DJs on the top of an international chart? That’s the measure of success in today’s world not some little session held in a basement club somewhere.
JT: “U R just one of the Jamaicans who dont understand the noise and rebellion Tman” I understand it all right but who cares if my gun bigger than your gun, where is that going to get us? That’s all the lyrics you have? If that Is all you can reflect from your environment, then it is sad indeed. You also ask yourself why rap is so popular. One of the reasons is that Americans who buy the records can understand it, the same cant be said about “gimme the girl wid the wickedes slam”.
Shaggybear: “What you are asking people to do is to give up their own culture and adopt one which is not theirs. You are saying...ignore you culture and your own people of backgrounds similar to your...sing for the people in Beverly Hills. Please!!! Talk sense”. Isn’t English part of your culture too? or is only patois that is “culture?” Did Bob ignore his culture and people and back ground? And why pick out Beverly Hills , how about the guy in the middle of Zimbabwe is he going to understand and want to buy there records?
I return to my original post and state until these DJs clean up ther act and sing in Engish they wiil be confined to the dustbin of history and all the people who support them are just helping to keep them there. Progress indeed! 20 years after Bob open the door not one of them step through it yet.
Di one Tman only interested in reaching a bigger audience and gaining big contract ($$$$). My youth a nuh everybody in dis fi money. Music is all about what you love and I am sure if you ask any true musician, money would be their last incentive for doing music. Dont continue to mix up music and money and then try to justify it by saying DJs only talk about guns, if you are an unbiased listener you will get nuff more out of it.
I for one would lose the love of dancehall if it was done it english because of the fact that it would lose its flavor just like food loses it flavor when its cooked differently from how it was meant to be cooked. Dancehall is a culture on its own, just like rap (whom most americans claim they dont understand), you really have to be into the scene to follow it. Listen to rock music (me nuh understand nuthin dem saying although you would claim its english). However nobody says they should sing differently so why you want change dancehall.
Yes dancehall was made for Jamaicans but we are not stopping anyone from liking it but dont ask for it to be changed to what you feel it should be. Its pure in its art form and thats the way it should remain. Commercializing it will only bring about its destruction.
"Isn’t English part of your culture too? or is only patois that is “culture?” Did Bob ignore his culture and people and back ground? And why pick out Beverly Hills , how about the guy in the middle of Zimbabwe is he going to understand and want to buy there records?"
English is a part of our culture, but it is not something that sets our culture apart from others. It is something that we share with other cultures (like that of Beverly Hills). A dialect is a major aspect of a culture which sets it apart from others.
OUR DIALECT is a major part of our culture which immediately sets us apart from others on the surface. We are defined or identified by our culture (and vice versa). Our culture is what it is because of who we are and what we were. It is our life. So telling us to set aside our dialect to satisfy Buffy is telling us to set aside one of the fundamental defining characteristics of our culture, one which differentiates it from others and makes us who we are, Jamaicans. Ultimately, you are saying we should exclude our dialect (one of the fundamentals of our culture) from Jamaican music. At that point you will have succeeded in eliminating "Jamaican" music, and replacing it with some commercial nonsense that can be found anywhere else in the world.
I don't see what point you are trying to make about Beverly Hills and Zimbabwe, but I will venture a guess and posit that Shaggy won his award in America. If I remember how Billboard does things it is based on record sales (unimportant regardless). If the man in Zimbabwe can break out of the mire he is in due primarily to England, America, and Australia's refusal to stop raping Zimbabwe of its gold, diamonds and other natural resources (another argument) then maybe he can afford to buy that CD. Until then, it is Buffy in Beverly Hills who is buying the records (because she can afford it).
As an aside I will tell you when I go to dancehall session in London, is NUFF Nigerian I see out there.
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Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
....loud and clear 
