Greetings...to all ites and let me say welcome to General specifically after his long hiatus from the forum. What had happen to you my friend ? We all thought something had happened to you. Myself and Assasin in particularly was very concern about not seeing you on the forum. Anyways,we welcome you back and it's good to see you again sir and most of all to know that you are well.
Gentlemen...I am going to detract from the discussions of football for alittle and turn your attentions to our beloved country. Can anyone tell me what has caused the recent up surge in crime and violence in Jamaica ? This is an epidemic that has now blown way out of proportion. Has anyone been following the recent developments in the country both in the media and international scene ?
I was just reading an article on homview about the situation in certain parts of Kingston. People are saying that certain parts of Kingston are in a deplorable and atrocious state. Higglers are flocking to the streets to ply their trade, cars cannot get anywhere to drive as a result, pick pockets are on the loose because of over crowding, shop owners and business people are loosing up to 40% of their businesses per day because the place is in such a deplorable condition people are afraid to shop because of the un-comfortable surroundings in which they have to shop, fearing the hassle of pick pockets. The people are also complaining that in certain instances they get better protection from some people they refer to as "protectionist" than they do from the police.
Gordon Butch Stewart recently hinted at pulling out of Jamaica if the government cannot do something to curve the escalation of criminal activites in the country and other business people are echoing the say sentiments. I also saw an article in which they are saying pretty soon the U.S. may start issuing travel advisory to tourist planning to visit Jamaica and if they do so then other countries may soon follow. This could be very, very bad for our tourism industry because we do not have much resources to begin with upon which we can rely. Tourism is our main bread and butter right now.
Over and over I have stressed on this forum that indiscipline and corruption is going to kill us and run our country to wreck. Some of us though, seems to look at our dis-tasteful behavior as culture and not bad,indisciplne acts of self destruction. Crime and violence is about to malign and run our country defunct and bankrupt. What has happened to us ? Can anyone out there tell me ?
I have heard that the government is looking overseas for outside intervention in helping to curve the crime situation in the country. I believe that one of the main cause of this up surge in crime is the lack of meaningful/ gainful employment. I have heard that there is absolutley nothing for the young youths leaving school to do and the situation is further compounded by the influx of deportees from places like the U.S, Canada and England. I often times wonder if all of us should return to Jamaica, where would the country find space to accommodate all of us. The population is (2) pluse million, probably close to (3) million and probable another (3) or more million of us living abroad.
Yeremiayah formally know as Wasp! More on The killing in Jamaica. Thu Aug 31 08:25:24 2000
It was even on the news in Jamaica that they are kiddnaping youths in jamaica to transport the coke in various community . A baby was recently found dead with at the Air port with his/her intestines or belly cut out, it seems as if they were using the baby to transport the coke this was made the head line in the news in Jamaica.
I heard that the columbians are transporting Coke throught Jamaica, for years now and it is now taking a told on the citizens and the youths. Many Jamaican man including police that hold very high position are very much involved. Alot of what went on are hitman type shooting. Seems like man dem na distribute the coke money fairly are the man dem not paying up.
In additon since 1994 or even longer, the coke is very evident in my community in Clarendon, now the question is who bringing the cokeing to Jamaica. I no for a fact Vere and ROcky POINT in clarendon are main entrance port for vast amoung of coke that entire each year in Jamaica. I heard jamaica if full of columbians.
Man I saw a few guys in my cummunity and you can tell that the coke is blowing thier brian.
Emancipation Day - Muta reasons about August 1st, which is emancipation day in Jamaica, as well as August 6th, so called Independence Day, and the iverstanding of the fullness thereof. (Cutting Edge - July 26, 2000) You no what hurts,
You have people Thu Aug 31 08:59:35 2000
in here a put dem trust in a dem mentally insane government leaders. I and I bun PJ and the entire government of Jamica. I speak this non-Apologetically. Na beg no friend, truth hurts.
Yeah, give me a peace of the plantation. Or else it is going to bring a revolution gread destructio The people need leberation from this opressive regime . For 4hundred years my ancestor/africans/awaraks gave thier lives so that the generation of today can have emanicapation, vast wealth of this nation. But a few so-called interlets, mentally enslaved leaders, european educated are repeaing the benifits of this great land, while the people the real africans in Jamaica suffers.
Out of many one of people but the african are to be at the back all the time.
Voilence and drugs, a product of currupted govenment Our best interest are no were near thier intentions. Money and riches is their game.
So people, we have to lead ourself and not no govenment whose head of state is the Harlot: the Queen of England. Yow, brake the chain africans both mentally and physically or do you want to be subject to this slavemaster regime. It is your choice. Africans unite, no need to fight, you see the plight of our race globally. lets make a change emancipate your self from the colonial thinking and and the english lifestyle find your true identiy because africa is our redemption.
like I said I and I na beg no friend whether you like it or not, I and I a speak my mind.
The maroons/ashanti in jamica have thier own government system and they are doing perfectly find. The rastaman have thier own comunity all over jamaica and most are doing perfectly find. love is what dem deal, farming is thier main source of food and income.
This is a great example of self reliance. where are our mans, come and take control of your family we can do this elevate yourself from this government.
I must start by saying this is a very touchy subject indeed but you have never impressed me as a man that runs from touchy subjects. Nuff respect..
Regarding violence: Jamaica was founded on violence and has been violent ever since. It was violence in the worst form that caused the displacement (a euphemism for genocide) of the native population (the Arwawaks). It was violence in the worst form that led to the peopling of Jamaica by Africans under the terrorisms perpetrated by european plantation owners. It was violence in the worst form that propped up and mentained the system of slavery for so many years. It was violence that sparked the abolition of that system. The system that replaced it ( the colonial system) was propped up and supported by the threat of violence. It was the fear of violence that led to the independence of Jamaica. Now in the year 506 we are still being consumed by violence. Is it surprising that a history of violence spawned a culture of violence?
Just the other day me and my aunt was remenescing about the "good old days" growing up down "di lane". I used to get a floggin' every so often. It is a very "Jamaican parent" thing to do, but I remember some of my friends used to get way more than a floggin'. Dem used to get dem ass BUSS! fi nutten. I remember vividly one day after a long morning of "ring nucks" my friend walked in his house to get some more of his stash of marbles. As the door opened all we heard was WHAM WHAM WHAM... Aaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeee..... BLUPPPPPPPPPPPPPP. Bem Bem (my friend) was flying though the air, out the front door, over the vehranda railing and almost bruk him neck. Him fada a BUSS him ass because him a play marble instead of washing di plates. Now, Bem Bem dead! police kill him the other day afta him kill 'bout 10 man. When I heard, mi mind flash pon di rassssings him used to get and mi say rasta... and I wondered if that violent house with the vehranda contributed to Bem Bem's voilence. Many of us can relate to this but we wont call it violence because we practice the same things now on our youngsters. I know it is not the root cause of violence in our little country but violence begets voilence. Is it surprising that a history of violence spawns a culture of violence?
Crime? thats another thing alltogether. I can't really relate to or condone that. When we were growing up down that same lane we were oblivious to the poverty that surrounded us. All you needed was 3cents fi buy pretty paper and you were entertained for the whole week flying kites. Nuh have no time fi a pick pocket. Find a old wheel bearing a get the steely them and you a di king of the ring nucks! Food? didn't eat boneless mutten very often but I can't say we went hungy. Pund of flour was not that expensive and with all the ackee trees down the lane, a pund of flour went a long way. Nowadays it costs so much more to have half the fun we had for almost free. I can almost understand why the youths dem steal and pick pockets.
Another factor that contributes to the crime and voilence is that the youths for the most part have given up on the society because the society have given up on the youths. If the tourism continued to be insulated from the crime and voilence nothing would have been said only the victims of these crimes would have cared. Tourism might be the big cash cow but the real gold mine in Jamaica is its youths. Endless and uptapped possibilites in those mean steets and lanes! Jamaica really need to just grow up and figure out what it wants to be. Better yet we Jamaicans need to grow up and figure out what we want our country to be. Fire P.J and Bun Seaga. Seaga got him turn and nutten nevah happen PJ a run thing and nutten nah gwaaan. New Youths, new ideas new perspectives new directions. Give Treva Monroe or one of dem youths deh from UWI a chance to try them theories and rid Jamaica house of the neocolonialist vanguards.
Regarding the deportation agreement between Jamaica and these other countries, Jamaica has the $hit end of that stick. Look at the deal these countries get. They market themselves as "lands of opportunities". Our best and brightest along with every one else (including the criminally inclined) jump at the chance for the opportunities available. The criminals are filtered out and deported and the talented ones remain in these countries contributing immensly to thier economies. We (Jamaica) end up with not only a disproportionate number of criminals, we lose our brightest and most promising youths to these other countries. a double whammy. Not only that. How can a man weh de a foreign from he is 3 years old, go a jail when him 23, serve 7 years in US jail then get deported to Jamaica after all that. Jamaica is not responsible for him being a criminal? His a$$ needs to stay where he was socialized into being a criminal.The deportation laws needs to be reexamined.
Jus a read,naw say nutten but I like that point Ddread lick...How long shall they steal our future ...from beginning of time they have stole our resourses...Cane, bauxite,coffee, our beaches,our tourism (cause the people dont get nothing from tourism),our farmers, our governments are bought constantly,they steal our scholars and our minds...They take the strong and leave the weak,give us pop music and guns,name brands and mcdonalds,satelite tv with all of there culture and ideologies and our young learn nothing of our own culture and ideals...They teach us about Henry the womaniser then tell us how we must not have more than one woman,teach us christianity..and tell us to forget about worldly things as they collect them for themselves...But then mi hear lando as well and see that most Jamaicans are trapped...Cause the good brains that left a yard cant change the system as the people with the money are as corrupt as the criminal minded if not criminals themselves..Our culture is nothing like the past anymore..Its dog eat dog..Everybody a bun fire fi something...Soon the whole place a go bun dung cause if fire not controlled then it will jus destroy...Anti capleton,Pro beenie man??? Naw..I am more on the (Bob Marley) Bounty Killa thing..."The yute dem corruptive?,from mi likkle mi nuh see nuthen productive...." and they keep us hungry....then you brother's got to be your enemy..." well..this is how Lando and many of Jamaicans seem to be living...Everyman for themself,just that some by the methods of by any means necessary go further than others.....rob,steal and sometimes murder?? But what I find Ironic is how a nation infested with churches is so unruly...We do not need so many churches...All that congregational monies could build and develop much for the yutes but all we see developing are churches....Our kids are amongst the brightest and educated around the world but intelligence is another matter??? By this I mean we educate our kids well but the intelligence they aquire is all american and british but nothin to enhance our nation or culture bcoz we have no resourses to reward as such and in such the beginning of the end as we all become indoctrined into the slave culture...slaves to the monies and worldly things that in effect has no bearing on our lives except to make us the envy of the gravalicious... (funny how u can get a whole heap of useless things in ja but a car that is a necessity a yard cost double to import otherwise buy the used cars that cost the same as the new...) Personally I think the solution is simple...educate the yute them properly...Teach the yute them but also train the yute them....Develop the yute them...Exercise limitations on the foreign press...Americans are taught to love and respect if not worship their flag...W.I. are performing badly against England but the british press reports that England dust them out proper but anyone who has seen the game can see Englands game hasn't improved much it's jus our game that has deteriorated..Its hard for parents as they are slaves to the system already but with help from the government...And so we get to the argument of but the government not and dont want to do nothin...And so Lando and nuff man bawl...revolution...(which I state does not have to be violent)Which Pdart..right here mi turn the argument back to soccer...The JFF=Government...Burell=PJ....The Squad=the people both based local and foreign....Brown,Laza,Simoes,OLI etc=our teachers/preachers/politician....Fifa=the outside power/world.....Fifa control things..monies,etc and make some rules...And so we decided we want to play thier game so we accepted the rules and so as to compete we had to put our teachers aside and get foreign teachers that cost nuff more monies(and in Laza we saw a teacher that was easily manipulated by certain individuals who sought to have things run thier way and so develop thier own interests)and so our people have become productive but only after learning that unity helps..and not the forceful acceptance of foreign Jamaicans that have a better lifestyle already to come and take the little that the not so better off still deh a yard Jamaicans have..This has been helped as a better documentation of the once local but overseas based players receive now...Everyone ees now that not bcoz u live abroad mean things are better for u...We also see that people who used to perform thier tasks at the highest level a yard go abroad to perform at lower levels(3rd div)We see that if the right vibe is not in the squad we get trouble,indiscipline,and then poor performances...But ironically we also see how easy it is to disguise the weaknesses of the government(the JFF) when the team is winning...As the government has not built or developed anything for the future for the people and even with the help of various sponsors and donators to an attractive phenomenom (Jamaica/Reggae Boyz)the government seem not to be helping the people but themselves.....And like Buju say..We could go on and on but the story.....Damn..mek mi stop cause man get shot fi less than this....But I hope i have shown the parallels between The Boyz and Jamaica....The success of the Boyz can easily transform into success for our country but only when we as people realise we have the power not the government...I bet their was less trouble in Jamaica when we was at the WC...I was thier last Xmas..Leading up to Xmas and jus after the new year there was a calm...then a few suicides (probably vex the world never come to an end) and then I believe the people are focused again on reality...I feel for our first black prime minister as he has not really got the support of Jamaicans but does not really command the respect of his people who have a tendancy to worship those of lighter skin tone believing they have monies and power...That plus he is a weak leader...Some rather the white man Seaga and only when thier backs are against the wall would turn to the less experienced (OLIVERA/NDP)....If only we as a people could discuss our politics as freely as we do our football....
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They make the world so hard
I think that the drugs,guns,deportees and the unavailability of jobs are the main factors for the upsurge in the crime wave.I would like for the government to get up off their ass and demand that the United States,England and to a lesser extent Canada put more measures inplace to restrict the trafficking of guns to the Caribbean.These countries have the technology in place to control the flow of guns and are't doing shit about it.Jamaica does not make guns,so how the hell do we have so many guns floating around in the country. Another thing,how can you deport a person to another country when that person know nothing or have no family to where they are being deported.So many hardened criminals are deported to Jamaica,without the taught of ever getting a job,they will only revert to the life they know,or better yet to try and survive the only way they know,which is to rob,sell drugs and kill.I noticed that the United States is giving billions to Columbia to fight drugs which is very good,but what about the rest of the Caribbean which is been used as a trans-shipment point.I think more assistance should be sought in the form of technology,training and equipment to help counter-act these dangerous Columbians who are finding easier to do business out of the Caribbean and especially out of Jamaica.On the local front a lot of work needs to be done,for example we need to make some adjustment in the justice system to make it more fairer for all,also the police need to figure out what are their priority,whether to arrest a man on the corner for smoking a split,thereby wasting time on petty cases or to go out there and obtain information on the real criminals in the society.The other thing is that most of the wealthy Jamaicans back home don't play a major role in helping the country to progress.They make whatever out of the system and then buy bonds and bank their cash overseas and buy fancy condos overseas instead of investing in the country.It is now when they and their friends are feeling the pinch they come out crying for more to be done.I say this, if all of us can come together with one common agenda,which is to see to the betterment of our country and work together hand in hand with whatever Government agencies and any outside help,then that's the only time we will rid this disaster that is facing the country.
Well, well, well...I just know I can always depend on my fellow ites for CONSTRUCTIVE thoughts, ideas and edifying information.
Ddread and JT...much respect and lots of applause for your contribution to this topic.After such great and wonderful enlightment to this very serious topic from you gentlemen this leaves little room for additions.
Ddread, you are so right my friend. We as a nation was borned and founded on violence. Also the often times brutality that some of us parents engage in and call it discipline towards our children has contributed alot to the retribution we are now experiencing. The example of your youth days and the atrocities you have witnessed your boy hood play mate experienced is just one of the many examples of brutality of children by parents that has now contributed to our degredation.
Hostility is really a true way to advocate violence in any people, especially when you are young and vulnerable. Like you have said and I will reiterate, we need to get rid of the old vanguards, the bucky masas, the illeterate, complacent and status quo set of people we have as heads of government in our country and replace them with new minds and a more revolutionary thinking set of people. From I was a boy until now I am a grown man almost now senior citizen(smile) we have had one set of guys ruling the country. Every five years we swop one for the other. They come back in to power with the same mind set, the same bogus ideas with nothing to offer the youths. We keep on swapping black dogs fi monkey, with no sense of direction, hence a recurring decimal. You mean to tell me that with all the bright minds we have in Jamaica, we cannot find a set of intelligent minds to run the country ? Believe me, it's not hard but because we are so corrupt(the head of government) they fail to see the real situation.
Like (JT) said,we have some of the brightest minds in the world,but the question is, where is the intelligence. I have long believed that education and intelligence is not mutually exclusive, hence you sometimes have educated FOOLS.
For two long the so call politicans in our country has maliciously educated the people/ youths to be beggars by giving them hand outs, especially around election time, telling them if they remain faithful there is more to be had from where it came. It has some resemblance to the welfare system in this country by which the white man told the blacks, if you remain quiet we will feed you so as to keep them from being productive and thrifty, the only difference with us is that we do not sit dormant, we kill each other in the name of party politics, wasting time until now everything has blown out of proportion creating a very volatile situation in our nation.
Government cannot do everything, infact they often times will not do anything if we the people sit back and allow them to get away with it. The people of jamaica will have to start getting back to the days of loving and caring for each other because that's the only way they will become a force to demand from the government what they were elected to do. There is absolutely no infrastructure in the country now from which the youths can benefit, there is no program in place to foster good will, mobilizing the youths. What's the sense in educating the youths if you are not going to be able to put them to work, right now an education is so hard to come by in the country, they make it virtually impossible right now. Parents cannot find school fee, children cannot learn on hungry belly and parents cannot provide without meaningful/ gainful employment.
Ddread, you remember I told you I wrote a book some years ago but I did not publish it fearing reprisals because I know very many of us cannot face up to the truth ? Bwoy more and more I believe I should publish this book, because in truth many of the things am saying in this forum is written in that book, so by now you guys already read parts of my book without even knowing.
I would like to add more but my son is calling me right now, he thinks I am ignoring him hence he is getting alittle bored. I will come back and add more later.
Russian..let me apologise, I did not see your post. While I was posting, you were doing the same.
Great points my friend all those points you brought forward are contributing factors to the crime situation in the country right now and it's time our leaders get up off their asses and attack the problem at the head of its source. You are so right, guns are not manufactured in the country, yet every man can find one if needs be.
Most of the times though the police cannot re-act to these volatile situations efficiently, because their hands are tied too and sometimes they themselves have been bought by the corrupt society in which they work.
It seems as though our once peaceful nation as now become a major drug trans-shipment heaven for the caribbean. Much can be done if the bigger countries really wants to contribute to the stemming/ ceasing of this illicit trade that is mashing up the whole caribbean.
I agree with your thoughts/ commence immensely. Peace brother.
Yes gentlemen, the conversation deep real deep, i dont even know where to start , the sotrys the i dem a tell and the truths the man dem a point out is outstanding, POISONDART the I is a bright youth and i am sure that man like Russan,JT,Ddread and even Lando the new man pon de block have above avrage insight about jamaican afares,there are meny youths on this forum whos name i might not call youths like SO,Asassin,General a long time vet. on this forum welcome back its a whole host of people alot of you may see the names from time to time discussing various topics concerning the jamaican soccer team and its asperations and how it relates to them and their country, there some wonderfull minds on this forum, there are a few other forums that are out there that have simelar people on them but i wis to remain on this forum due to the nature of the conversations and the total respect the man dem have for this forum and themselves,now having said that,all of the man dem who posted before me are right on point the man dem know exactly what is going on down a yard,(Crime&Voilence)is a big problem in jamaica because of what my fellow forumites said they are and i would like to add to some of the insightfull remarks,the whole thing to me stems from a question which jamaicans from ever since are afraid to ask themselves and are still not ready for or so they think, the question is (DO WE STAY WITH THE OLD STYLE OF GOVERNING, HELPING, CARING, DEVELOPING AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST FOSTER-SETUP-CARYOUT AND FULFILL BIG DREAMS AND IDEALS FOR THE FUTURE OF THE JAMAICAN COUNTRY/PEOPE ALIKE??)to me that question can be answered in meny ways but i only see one real chance for us as a people to develop and avhieve these goals,and that is to CHANGE-CHANGE-CHANGE!!!!,we cannot go on with business as usualwhile everything around us are changing, we as a people have to decide now do we want to still cary water up hills and strugle to make ends meat or do we want to change our outlook and way of thinking towards these realetys,things are not the way they used to be even 10 years ago we have not planned ,we have not taken any precautions, we have not made any steps to move forward, we have bin living in a systemway outdated for the western world .....ooohh yes jamaica is a western world country, so we are expected to act that way by the international community,the people of jamaica are a smart and strong people but our idealsm is not the kind of people like america and som other countrys we as jamaicans love to have a leader, lets face it we need just a few great leaders to help us chart our future,right now we are in a crosroads, the battle in jamaica right now is not over money and power so much but a fight over idealsm,do we want to be a people who want a everyman for himself country or do we want a country that develop the mose comprehensive system for wealth gathering and sharing for all its peoples and not just some! after all that is what a great leader should do, he must some how be able to get the people to pull together on a common positive goal which will have far reaching implecations in all of their futures and exicute a system which will give them and their cheldren the fruits of their hard work in a meaningfull way,until the jamaican people answer this question seriously then things will continue to escalate, because we keep trying to patch old garment by cutting up the new one,and not realizeing that the old one needs to go and the new one will work better if it is used as it should insted of cutting it up to fix the old one,i still see hope for jamaica still,i still believe in jamaica and jamaicans we are a great people and we will overcome in the long run but we have to start now ,the time when we used to say its ok we will wait until ours come is long past we have to go out there and creat ours insted of waiting in some one or somthing to get it for us,somone spoke of revelotion, all i can say is we are seeing a revelotion onfolding right before our eyes,the people who want a all for mi self versus the the people who want a sevilised and progresive country where all can srtive and develop, things must change and i think we are seeing it now because....like the old time jamaicans used to say things a come down to bump now , the jamaican people will have to decide now not later what kind of country they want?,remember the last 10 to 20 years we as a sociaty persued the idea that forign is the answer to all our problems and now it has backfired right n our faces in a bad way,so now what will our new persute be?,that is the question!!!!......peace mi brethrens ...dart much respect for bring up such vital issues in light of a football success....reggaeboyz forever...like the man dem before me said A-COULGO ON AND ON BUT THE FULL HAS NEVER BIN TOLD...peace..
Atownrudi...greetings my friend, good to see you as usual.
Rudi, great minds think alike. I have the utmost respect for you guys on this forum. Man like JT, Ddread, yourself, Assasin, Lepimi, General, etc., etc., you all are very, very intelligent beings. Sometimes I often wonder, why the smart people are driven out of the country, while the insane are left to run the place. The country is now being run like a low down marketplace, my friend.
Like Ddread was saying, can you all remember what Jamaica was like when we were growing up? I don't know about you guys, but I can remember Jamaica as a place of paradise in my youthful days. No one, absolutely no one could ever tell me that someday I would want to emigrate from my country. Irresposible leadership has now driven our country to wreck my friend.
Anyway much respect and guidance until later. Love to read your post as usual my friend.
Oh ! by the way Ddread, you know you could be a very, very, good script writer. I was just reading your post again on the reply to me on crime and violence, man you have me laughing like an idiot. "Bem, Bem got him ass whipped and little after that him was flying through the window, end up almost bruk him neck."
Man you, JT and SO are in rivalry has to who should get the cake fi hilarious writings. Bwoy, you guys really and truly have me laughing all the time bwoy. Are you sure you weren't a script/ play writer in school ?
Crime and Violence. The upsurge was due. It is a part of our evolution. We have (as Jamaicans) not come to the realization of a need for self-love. Garvey/Booker T. etc. taught self-love. Deportees come back teaching self-hate. Corrupt politicians self-hate. False messiah's taking offering while promising God teach self-hate. Corrupt civil servants on the take to survive are on the short end of the stick of death. This all started in 1947 after the mass migration to the US. rather than stay in the the island and build, we took our self-hating ways to the US and built Babylon. This barrel mentality has come home to roost. How can you say no to coke money, when you are already taking Ganja money? Jah must come.
Jah..Rastafari reggaebwoy....I also know exactly what you mean by the self-love,self worth argument....That I suppose is what I meant by Americans worship them flag...Plane crash and only one american,people get kidnap and only one american & it's a big thing if it was a yardie I think we would all laugh him to scorn..But more seriously we wouldn't care.... Rudi wid the revolution start already!!! Fi real...But I honestly feal like to much different revolutions...The more fire turn to too much fire...But change is the real issue..I dont think J'cans are scared of change,they just make too many impulsive ones.. Easy Dart..Like this topic you raised...Big up all the man dem who participate..
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They make the world so hard
Big Up Russian,Jt, Lando, reggaebwoy and Rudi nice posts.
One thing I want to add to the drama with Bem Bem... is trow him fada thow him out di house yuh know? Yes roots di man literally throw di yout' though the door and over the vehranda afta the buss ass. Wicked man.
The way Jamaicians raise their children is the root cause of the problem you see today. No lasting affect on crime and the economy will occurr until this is addressed. Beating your child frequently and violently, without touching and loving destroys the self esteem of child. So that you can understand the full impact of this here is a part of an article on POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER BY A Dr Meichenbaum. PSTD is the affect a traumatic event has on an individual, such a beating, loss of a close family member or some significant event. Exposure to at least one event can effect 5% of male and 10% of females. Resulting in psycotic disorder, substance abuse, depression,suicide, anger-control, sexual dysfunction,anxiety, social phobias and alcohol abuse. These problem if left untreated escalates until the person is incapable of interacting in a normal social setting. Does this sound familiar, downtown Kingston perhaps. The violence that Jamaicain children are exposed to in the home and then outside the home has brought us to this point gentlemen. To move forward we must change the way we raise our children. Hug them, kiss them, tell them you love them, speak to them lecture them when they are bad and only as a last resort do you spank them, not beat them,.THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. If you beat your child more that you hug them, how could they possibly believe that you love them, have you shown it. If you spank your child more than once a month your not doing a good job. How would you like to be beaten by your husband or wife 12 times a yr. Would you feel they loved you. Spead the word gentleman. I feel we have reached the point were we as Jamaician will move forward when this become the national issue. Love and good parenting to you all. DON
The only thing I can say about your post Don is that I am sure nearly all ,if not all will say the beatings they received did them no harm....I believe some kids get destroyed by beatings but only when this is added with constant degredations and humiliation....Most kids know why they get a buss ass....And if done proper most kids understand that it is a form of discipline..I agree that a little more communication,consideration and understanding could be incorporated but... Nowadays kids get away with murder....and due to these extreme conservative ideas we are bombarded with...Kids now suing parents and divorcing them....Has the world gone mad?? But here is reality....In our parents days,there was more punishment and less indiscipline,today ther is more indiscipline and less punishment...Beating someones backside is totally different from beating someone to a pulp...but of course one of the most important skills of life is not taught but has to be learnt fast and thats parenting.And no-one is taught how to deal with situations without resorting to an abusive nature,especially Jamaicans...Thats something I believe,a skill we aquire.... Nowadays in Jamaica they preach not to beat up yu woman,a god given right some men used to think,but in the same way you cant teach to stop disciplining the youths without giving other skills or methods that work....Talking to kids ??? I dont think that always work..
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Regarding Crime & Violence, did anyone catch the 1 hour report on ABC 20/20 last night about the white girl that got missing down Negril. Any comments on that. As usual thy made Jamaican men seem like predators. I figure the bartender that is the object of the investigation had something to do with her disappearance. After living in NY for a while now I know what the FBI/CIA/DEA can do and how far the arms reach into the affairs of other countires.
I must say I didn't really mean to suggest that punishment is the reason for the crime wave we are experiencing I am just entertaining the idea that when it is extreme it contributes. I for one know that everyone in my family used to get a "beaten" if we did wrong things. We knew (or could figure out) what those wrong things were and we avoided them so as to avoid the "beatin". We along with countless others (the majority) that I know turned out OK.
All I was saying is that some parents go too far. The situation with my childhood friend (Bem bem) was just an example. I hear what you are saying and you are right it is not a "spare the rod and poil the child issue" it's more like "if you break your fist while disciplining your child you probably went over the limit".
Thanks Don for that piece of info. from the doctor. Parenting is such a delicate topic/ thing to do. It's only a pity it's not something you could go buy a book and learn about and everything would just fall in place. It is one of the most difficult task in the whole wide world.
Don, you are so right. How many of us really hug our children and make them feel wanted, tell them daily that you love them, nuture and guide them like we should. I must say though, some of these traits that our parent and fore parents possess and exercise are remnants of slavery and colonialism. Because our fore parents were ignorant (had no knowledge of) the detriments that is caused by such harsh brutality in the name of discipline, they pass it on to their children who now passes it on to us. It is like a link in a chain. What we have to do now, like you and (Jt) has rightly pointed out, is to try and break this on going madness.
I must give myself a tap on the shoulder, because when it comes to loving my child, I gave myself an "A" based on all your points (smile). I have got one child who I love dearly and to say dearly is an understatement. Everyday that God sends, I make it known to my boy, how much daddy loves him. We go out and play together, go to the movies together, laugh together, chat on topics of concern to him and just about all the things you could think of that is necessary we do together. Sometimes as a parent, you have to bring yourself down to your child's/ children level to get an understanding of how they feel and the way they think. However, at the same time, he knows his boundaries, he knows wrong from right, he knows when he has crossed the line. When he crosses the line what do I do ?
I sit him down and we have a good talk, I make him know the detriments of what he has done and make him know that this is the last time he is going to do it. A spanking is necessary at times but like you guys have said that should be your very last resort and not murderation .
Look at the case of Ddread and is boyhood play mate Bem-Bem. This is a typical case of arrogants and brutality committed in the name of discipline and there are many, many more Bem-Bem's out there. Where do we draw the line, this madness will have to stop. Teach your child love and he will learn not to hate. Give your child praises when he does something right and he will learn confidence. As Ddread pointed out, violence begets violence. Only love can conquor hate.
Good argument my friends, I love your contentions immensely, keep it up guys.
Bwoy, considering how important this topic is to our little island, mi caaaaan lef it suh!
Nuff good points mi idrens.
I was surprised that no one added or commented on the effect of politics and political violence in our cities. Rasta… Remember that same lane I grew up in. Well we had a little youth club like most neighbourhoods in those times. We had a football team for the guys and a netball team for the girls. Club nice! nuff outings, concerts fund raisers etc. Have pretty gears, nuff ball, things well organized… cho. Club a gwaan and a get big. It expanded to include a much wider community than just the lane. Then, politicians moved in. Our little youth club became the desire of politicians from both sides. We couldn't vote(too young U17) so we took monies from both JLP and PNP and a played neutral. The influence of the club was ever widening.
We started getting a whole lot of support from these politicians. Before long some of our members started getting monies directly, not related to the club. After a while guns started flowing and some members were armed to the teeth. From gears to guns! We could see the metamorphosis. Man weh did cool and was die hard club member… can’t talk to him too tough anymore! Him have him piece. Club activities went to zero because now there was rumor (really fact) that our little neutral club was affiliated to this or that party. Classic case of “Things Fall Apart”!
Without the club and club activities… idle hands! Nuff a mi idrens turn political goons. ’76 and ’80 elections are responsible for most of this culture of violence. Those goons with guns turned criminals. Yes Iyah, after the elections and the politicians didn’t need them for the next four years they needed to support their new habits. Untold stories! I know my little experience was common in many neighbourhoods througout JA.
Well the generation that run things now grew up watching their big brothers as political goons wid guns. They may not care for politics anymore but they still have the guns.
