If Theodore Whitmore is so good, as many proclaim (not to be derisive towards him at all--simply objective), why does he continue to languish in the Third Division in England.
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Thats a fair enough question but, let me ask you a question of my own which i think will answer your queston as well .WHY DO YOU THINK JOHN BARNES DID NOT START FOR ENGLAND IN ANY WORLD CUP GAMES IN 86?? was it because he was not good enough , was it because he did not fit into their system at the time, was it because they had better players in the linup at the time who can fill his position??you tell me this truthfully and i will then answer your question!! i will give you an hint....look at Andy Cole..and tell me what you think...
PS. By the way if your not from England or ever visited or lived there you may be at a disadvantage when answering this question
Star, don't hide the ball from me. I'm a simple man...without much knowledge of the ways of the world -- and I'm not too bright. I've been to England a few times, but I'm still not sure what you're referring to.
I assume you mean race? If that's the case, I would agree with you to some extent. However, even given that circumstance, one gets the impression from discussions here about Tappa that he is certainly much better than many black players in the Premiership, much less those in the first and second division.
So...What's wrong with out star midfielder.
If it's racism that you suggest, and I have seen it myself in my visits to England, it doesn't explain why there are so many others above him.
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Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
In my humble opinion, the only thing holding back Tappa is his lack of CONSISTENCY. When he's good - he's magnificent. When he's not- he's... well... ordinary..
Just my view, having watched him for several years now...
Incidentally, race cannot be dismissed too lightly as a factor. In England, if you're black, you have to be THAT MUCH BETTER than your white compatriots ALL THE TIME to be considered for the higher divisions..i.e. Thierry Henry, Marcel Desailly, Yorke etc.
I am interested in hearing other views on the subject, however...
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I always thought that Tappa was overrated. No doubt he is skillful and possess above average ball handling skills, he lacks vision as a play making midfielder. His off the ball movement is paltry and he tends to play in small areas. He does not possess the type of shooting skills that threatens the opponent from outside the box. In fact most of his goals are scored from rebounds and goal area melees. He is competent but not as great as the forumites perceive him to be. One must not confuse one and one skills (which he definitely possess) with greatness. As one friend said to me (and I agree),"Tappa is a world class scrimmage balla"
Now this sounds like a topic for me to run off my mouth likkle..... WHITMORE.....Theodore Whitmore referred to as Tappa by some....I believe he is good but so far no one has been able to get the best out of him including himself...In the Olympics they are throwing a phrase weh say...great athletes are not created they are born....And so I apply this to tappa..He's good but not that good,like some compare him to great midfielders from around the world but I would not hesitate to disagree...He,to me,is the sort of player that has to be enticed to perform...He performs in the big games when he is not pressured and more or less the underdog...Inconsistent?? True.. And this reasoning of inconsistency is more the reason in my opinion,and not racism.... Club football is business,but of course there will be individuals(players,coaches,managers)that are,or who will be guilty of discrimination, in fact there are still individuals that include black players not bcoz of merit or ability but more bcoz of size(onandi lowe fi push over people or be a defender sorta like American footballers.Cant think of no black quarterbacks{playmakers}and Basketball used to be the same)But Black people should know that they have to try harder than their white counterparts(controversial line for more argument) So bizness mean its all about monies ...Players that are persued need to produce or be a good investment...Simple...So if you want a job,u have to impress....No point bawling discrimination if you not on the inside of the company and want to be..They will only cover it up...so u have to perform consistently if not productively...
John Barnes and Andy Cole...Hear this story I read in a newspaper...Headlined..RAMBO ROLE FOR JACKIE CHAN....They wanted the respectable Jackie Chan to be a multi-millionaire drug baron but JC said he would not appear in a film as a narcotics dealer as looking at the bigger picture,such a character would set a bad example to the kids ,so they rewrote the script for him... Andy Cole was a hit at Newcastle United..nuff goal...Then Keegan sold him and capitalised on his talent...(scoring)At Man. UTD. he was a flop at arrival...7 million dollar man and cant play the crowds said....Eventually with the managers faith and little training and confidence and the arrival of Yorke things clicked....The improvements I have seen of Cole has been his running off the ball,his confidence,his shooting and his strikers instincts...Some people think that if a man is brilliant then instantly he should be up there but football has always been a team game and good managers always think of this when they buy players...Players to fit in and produce for the company(The club) Whitmore's best game in England has been against Chelsea in the cup game otherwise he has been viewed as everyone else by most and those who see good in him have to satisfy thier reasoning of why to invest in a 28year old thoroughbred when you could bruk a foal much easier and less costly....Most big teams around the world has about three Whitmores' Jamaica only has one...He who dares to prove himself wins...on an international vibe though there is more Nationality and pride at stake than monies hence Racism creeps in.....To me too many Blackmen sell thier souls....So much Andy Cole wanted to play for England that he cant see they are only using him....Reputation experience ,and sometimes a record gives you a game for England and even when a white bwoy perform badly they will still be considered for the next game as long as they weren't the reason England loss but no matter the result if Cole dont score his ability and participation is questioned.But so English are these Black bwoys that push themselves to play for England that some of them may appear Black in skin colour but are white inside(thats Y I am against grabbing every English Jamaican we see)hence Paul Ince always get a game...Sol Campbell big and can defend....Hesky big & fast and can bounce down opposing defenders....Des Walker was the quickest defender in england until a white man from an opposing team run lef him..He's never played for England again.{Some teams though crave so much for WC success that they give citizenship to black man..USA,BELGIUM,others allow Blacks the right...France,Holland and Sweden and others jus aint having it..Germany,Italy}
But I think the main problem are us as black people..We let people tell us when to be offended...We let white people define to us racism...Some of us dont even know the difference between discrimination,racism and xenophobia....Some of us if not all will always grab money first without looking at the bigger picture...Some of us are bought to easily....But here in England that most Jamaicans think the road is paved with pounds keep coming here and forget the golden rule granny always teach us...U DONT GET NOTHING FOR NOTHING
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The thing is that a) Hull took a gamble on a 'foreign' player, and b) he is too inconsistant. But I believe that is because he isn't tested fully enough in the 3rd div and it is very physical. He would shine in a higher league because he raises his game when the opponents are better.
The knock against Tappa Whitmore according to most English scouts , is that he cannot "take a game by the scruff of the neck" and pull his team up.They think he has immense skills for any league but they dont know if he is "durable" for the rough and tumble of the Premiersip.Whitmore also gets "lost" in games.Anyway these are the same scouts that fall over each other for Latapy and American Clauio Reyna.Latapy plays the same type of game as Tappa. Frankly I don't think Reyna can tie Whitmore's or Latapy's shoes.Anyway the Glasgow Rangers paid over 2 Million pounds for Reyna so you go figure.Whitmore will move eventually but I think the real reasons are: 1.He is almost at the end of his contract when clubs will be able to make a move without having to bargain with Hull City for what he is really worth,some are probably hoping that he will be "free on a Bosman transfer" 2.Whitmore is involved in World Cup qualifying for his country and internationals from non-European countries are a "bad investment" at this time.Jamaica also has a track record (under Simoes but the Brittish never forgets) of requiring their players to play "lots of endless, meaningless" international friendlies. That is also why Simpson, Hall and Moore caught a raw deal.If clubs had a choice they would rather take a risk on a European player that has no chance of making their countries team. If they had to get a non-European it would be from a country like Nigeria or Cameroon that has a large player pool and does not have to "run their internationals into the ground" by playing them in every friendly. 3.Whitmore does not fit into a lot of these clubs playing style " kick and run dung" or as the English call it "route one" football.Boot the ball from defense to the forward and by doing so you bypass the midfield.Whitmore does not work in a system like that , he creates. If you bypass him with the ball sure he will be "lost".That is why the current Hull manager is allowing Whitmore to play as a withdrawn forward.That is how he scored his two goals recently.
P.S. Most English scouts think that Walter Boyd is a very talented "Magician" with the ball at his feet but he is "lazy" without it.
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Registered: 08/23/99
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Bway, unu know se I an I mus tek a lick off a di Whitmore topic, brethren.
As I read certain man posts, I wonder to myself, a whe dem man ya reely a talk bout, rasta? Some a unu sound like unu want a man drop two Shotokan under unu behind! Wake up smell di mint tea, for goodness sakes!!!
Whitmore is unquestionably one of the greatest. I dont buy the 'overratd' argument for a second. Obviously he cannot perform in the Premiership without being given the opportunity to play for a Premiership team.
There are several reasons why Tappa is not playing for one of those teams right now. Many factors are considered before a contract is offered, and so some of the points raised are indeed valid, including his relationship and committment to the national team, his age, the status of his current Hull City contract, his sometimes inconsistent play, etc.
But let's not confuse 'reasons why not yet signed' with 'football skills'.
I'll say just one thing. This discussion would be easily solved if Tappa is simply given a chance to run with your so-called quality players in the English premier League. Tappa would make these 'stars' all look like a bunch of saps. None posess his ball handling skills. Period. In fact, put this man against some of the best in the world and he will still command respect and raise his game to the level that is necessary. One of the things I admire most about Whitmore is that he is intimidated by no one, and forces all man (no matter who them be) to respect him when he has the ball.
Tappa is the man. Frankly, I cant wait for him to light up the Premier league. All the man want is a chance.
mek mi explain somthing to all de man dem who a sah Tappa is over rated, 1.) unno seh him get lost in games . i say if you play soccer at all you would not find that too disturbing, because there is only one ball and somtimes a great player has to sacrefice him self to alow another one of his team mates to get the run of play i.e. moving in a direction causing the oponents to follow and there by opening up a space for your team mate to go through... that is not lost that is smart playing
2.)he only rise to the ocasion in big games.. i say that is foolishness, if you have a great player thats when you would want him to play big...i see alot of so called world class ballers and when the big game comes they are no where to be found....there is also a saying that goes like this ..(big players play big in big games) ....thats how you seperate the wanna-bes from the real thing..
3.)they say he dont do off the ball work well not true..i say have you guys ever seen a player called Dr.Socrates who play the main man in the middle for Brazil...how much running do you se him doing...different players have different styles of playing and any team or caoch who dont know how to bring out the best in their players are no good in my view , the whole idea is you play a player with players who will complement his skills and put him in a system that will milk his best skills , of course if the big bang, bang soccer that is being played in the english league dont fit his skills, then he would probably not look as good as he could be , i.e. Zedan of France, do you see him running all arount the field?? no he dont but France plays a system and players around him which alows him to florish even though he dont do alot of work, and he is still an impact , why do you guys think Revaldo dont want to play in the english league, their brand of soccer is outdated the big long ball is over... get it over.. if you dont believe me go back and look at EURO 2000 again
3.)the scouts for the primere league teams have problems with his consistency , i say do you know what that mean?. ok let me ask what does consistency means in soccer.. playing at the same level no matter what or who you are playing....well i have news for you nay sayers... he does, in soccer its either you have skills or you dont there is no middle ground, its either you can dribble or you cant that well, its either you can control the ball or you cant... so i dont care if he is playing Brazil or ST.Vencent.. you cant change your game overnight so the whole thing about him being inconsestent is not true...everytime he touches the ball his skills show and his understanding of the game shows, i dont know what these peole are talking about,ofcourse players can have bad games from time to time , but even in his bad game you can still see the tallent level so dont give me that crap...thats a cop out..in my view
4.)AGE and money factor anyonewho says a 28 YO. cannot be drafted into the primere league is fooling them selves, thats purely an exchuse, the truth is they dont want to pay the 3rd world Jamaican player the money he deserves they want to get him badly but they want to pay him like GAEORGE WEYAH , a cuple of hundread thoudsand pounds, and play bullshit ass players like Ray Parlor 2.4 million pounds they just cant bring them selves to the point where they are paying these inferior black players that kinda money..thats why the go for the Africans because the poor africans will take any kind of contracts just to get off the continent, and i dont blame them ....
5.)So where should he play...then.. I say the ITALYEAN SERE A LEAGUE the type of ball played there sutes his skills fine to me based on what i watch and see there ...not the english premiere league too much kick and run ball....MAN U. and ARSNAL are the only teams in the premiere league that dont play kick and run ball.. and thats not enough ......
Rudi and all him diciples love tappa because Tappa can do the shift, bruk, and salad business that dont win football games but entertain his idolizers. Whitmore need to study how man from Riverplate of Argentina play ball and win games.
Whitmore is a great player, he just is playing in the wrong league. He basically came to Hull to get into the shop window, he's had trials at tons of other English club including Huddesfield and QPR who are currently in the english 1st division. Both of them wanted to sign him although vairous things put them off mainly the fact that he would miss a large chunk of the season due to call ups for Jamaica. In his first season Tappa was far to inconsistant and he did raise it for the bigger games like the FA Cup game on Chelsea which was broadcast on SKY TV. He also suffered with niggling injuries which put potencial buyers off.
Theo currently has a year to run on his contract and must try to play consistantly throughout that time. I know for a fact Coventry where intrested and scouted him for a number of months but where put of by the fact he was mercurial in one game and mediocre in the next. I think the fact that Hull do depend on him far to much from him despite his talent. Almost every goal Hull has scored this season has had some involvement with Tappa. A good base for him to start would be the 1st division and build his reputation from there.
Registered: 10/21/99
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Give tappa a break man. First Jamaican players weren't good enough to make the world cup. Then Jamaican players can't play anywhere else because them can't head, them lazy etc. Now that we are breaking the Tappa has gotten player of the month at Hull two months in a row when he has been living in a plane. I won't forget how some men called Goodison "Jamaican Crap". Now regardless what the scout say give tappa the oppurtunity to fail before we can say how good or bad he really is. Some people memory short, wasn't it last year he took Chelsea on by himself?
If you give tappa a chance in the upper division he will be able to make a name, Burton, Gardner, Hall and Simpson play in higher division and if they are bette than Tappa, how much better are they?
I think that to some extent I share bdennis' opinion. It looks like both General and Rudi's discussions focus on Tappa's close ballhandling skills. Whereas others, while acknowledging Tappa's ballhandling skills, have put forward the additional consideration of Tappa's ballhandling within the framework of the team.
Obviously, I would think that even if you have excellent ball handling skills, it might not be so meaningful if you can't incorporate it into effective interaction between the players.
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Shaggy bear mi respect the man still but mi cannot understand what yu mean whn yu say him cannot mek him ball skills work in a team setting , do you know that a team payed 1 million pounds for him , now if they thaught that he cannot make his skills work for them why give him a million pounds?? as for Bdennis i like him too because he tryes to think outside the box which is good, but him sometime forget certain aspect of gathering info and coming to a conclusions, case in point Tappa`s ability or in ablilty to win games with him bruk and shift skills i dont think this is even an issue at all when it comes to Tappa because he has alredy proven himself as a team player and that he is a winner and he have won games on his own meny times before even in the WC which is the biggest staget to do so in ,so where is all this knock on the mans soccer playing is coming from is mind boggling to me, the man is good enough to play in any top league in the world and i dont consider the Argenteanan league to be a top league in the world may be its a good league , which i do watch some of here games by the way and its like the haven for columbian and chellean and peruvean and paraguan players,the real tallented Argentean players are in Europe not in the english league mind you ....dutch .spanish, italyean etc... thats where real ball is being played, riverplate is not that great on the world club seen try Boca Jouniors if you want to talk about an Argentenian league team.. tappa can play in any of these leagues and have great success anyday ......
