In Reply to: Why are jamaicans so unattractive? posted byJuan on November 29, 2000 at 16:35:01:
Juan, you're not the only one who thinks that the majority of Jamaican woman are ugly.
I remember my cousin (he's from New York) when he went to JA when I used to live there as a kid and he said that Jamaican women are unattractive.
The thing is, when men visit other countries, I always hear them speak in awe about how attractive women from those countries are.
Even Donald Trump when he saw Trinidadian women, he was so struck by their beauty, that he decided to stage the 1999 Miss Universe pageant in T&T.
Jamaican women may not be generally as attractive as women from many other countries. But what makes many of them special is that they're considered to be wonderful mates, and have brains.
Jamaica has won beauty pageants before. But there's an old reggae song that says: "Miss Jamaica must not only be pretty, but also intelligent and witty". The last two words sum up what many Jamaican women possess.
"Also,because of the fact that I am dominican(mixed spanish,indian,and black)most of the darker skinned jamaicans that I encountered gave me this evel"playa hatin"look.It's like....."oh because you have reddish/bronze skin and good hair,you think that you're all that huh?"
This remark is not surprising.
They're many Jamaicans who are suffering from a lack of self-respect. So much so that some of them are bleaching (lightening their skin complexion) to make them feel "good" about themselves. So the looks that you say you got is not an all surprising.
Heh,Heh,Heh, Mi haffi laff. Ah wonder what part of Jamaica this guy is from. Anybody from St. Elizabeth/Manchester remember how fine dem girls from Manchester and Belair High Schools were. I am not even going to touch Kingston of even the North coast. What about dem girls from Savanah la Mar or even South St. Elizabeth and this is just a small section of Jamaica. It is puzzling how some people think a kind of backward way of thinking. I guess some of us have never rid ourselves of the slave/master mentality. I wonder what his definition of beauty is, this is why there is so much divorce these days because people chase after fleeting "beauty" and not true beauty within and without.
and please explain exactly what you mean when you say good hair ,,,,,,(WHAT IS GOOD HAIR??) and if there is one what is bad hair then??? i am expecting some clarefication on this matter of hair being good .....peace...this can give me alot of insight into what kind of mind set i am dealing with here !!...peace again ...
I don't see what I said in that post that was offensive. I gave a balanced response to Juan, an individual from the Dominican Republic who has his opinions on Jamaican women. I might add that they're men who share his views. Here's Juan's followup posted on Dec. 2, 2000:
Hello again everyone, Contrary to popular opinion,The reason that I started the "why are jamaican women so unattractive"thread was not to draw ire or bait anyone.I was simply seeking some open and honest feedback on a most puzzling topic-is black really beautifull.
Maybe my approach was a little salty,but sometimes it takes the cold,hard truth to encourage debate.My point is that"beauty"isn't necessarily in the"eye of the beholder"there is a base/universal human standard for what constitutes beauty.If you look at all three major brances of humanity-europeans,africans and asians,it's clear that 100% black/west african women tend to be the least attractive.Oddly enough,when africans mix with either of the other races,the offspring are (9 times out of ten)more attractive than the black parent and also the nonblack parent.This is pretty much the reason that so many black men show an over-whelming preference for lighter skinned black women,with chiseled facial feautures.Even when you look at so many of the so-called black nationalist leaders like marcus garvey,malcom x,louis farrakan etc...you see that even they chose lighter skinned black women,regardless of how much anti-white rhetoric they spew.I have yet to see any prominent black man with a jet black woman,with heavy african features.
Summing up the world's blacks,it's safe to say that you always find more attractive women in countries where there has been more race mixing.For instance brazilian black women are usually more attractive than african american,jamaican,haitian etc.. women.Dominican women tend to be much more attractive than most other carribean women.African american women are usually more attractive than jamaican or haitian women.Jamaican women are usually more attractive than haitian women(who aren't mixed).
A friend of mine and I were having a brief discussion about jamaican women about I week before I went there.I ssked him"what do the honies in jamaica look like"he said africans".He also said"they either look like haile berry or whoopi goldberg".Meaning that there seems to be some kind of caste system in jamaica,where those who are mixed race only date/marry other light skinned people(unlike the united states where light skinned,angular feautured black date/marry darker skinned blacks quite often).This has resulted in a medium range beauty(by black standards).The vast majority of jamaican women however tend to be very west african looking and have extremely coarse appearances.This is the reason that jamaican men become extremely infatuated with black women from other countries.I don't have to tell you how obsessed jamaican men get when they are around dominican,puerto rican women and african american women.Someone mentioned that jamiacan men are now travelling to cuba to find women,do you think it's a coincidence?I don't......notice you don't see jamaican men travelling to haiti to meet women(smile).
Anyone who has visited west africa is sure to tell you that the vast majority of the women there are butt-ugly.It's so bad that even west african men will concur(especially If they've lived abroad).Moving back to the other races(asian and white).I think that over-all women of these two races are average-looking,yet more attractive than african/african decended women(who are at least 90 black),but they tend to be less attractive than women who are 75% to 80% african.I tell you if any of you men happen to visit my country you are going to find some of the finest black women that you've seen in your life.A hefty percentage of them have,good hair,bronze complexions,pretty faces and guess what?The have those big-ole big,round asses that black men(world-wide)love.I tell you,that's where the african in us shines through,dominican women don't have the wide hips and flat,flabby asses that most other hsipanic women have.The only thing I must warn you guys about is"black magic doesn't work on brown people".Meaning that as a jamaican,african american or other carribean man in a predominately mulatto country you won't have that"ace in the corner pocket"that you have with white women.You know what I mean that masculine,often thuggish black bravado that evidently captivates a great many american and european women.Hehe....At the hotel in jamaica,it became apparent to me that a hefty percentage of the white women(especially if they were european)go to jamaica just to bang black men.I saw one group of hos(probably german or something)who had more than 9 jamaican men in-and-out their room.On the beaches I noticed how the lean/muscled bodied jamaican men sweet talked white women into bed,with that smooth way that they have of talking.
Last,I forgot to mention trinidaian women are also more attractive than jamaican or haitian women.
Atownrudi, haven't you ever heard of the term "good hair, bad hair"?.
I don't want to speak for Juan, but it is generally believed that a person with good hair are people with straight, curly, or wavy hair (whites, Hispanics, Asians etc.)
Many blacks on the other hand have nappy, kinky hair, which is sometimes tough to comb (ask many young black girls what they went through when their moms tryed to comb their hair).
Just trying to clarify something here. I'm in no way trying to discredit anyone here.
Trust me Delano..I dont remember that specific incident about blasting and dissing but this post has definately caught my attention...heh heh....
Beauty will always be in the eyes of the beholder...
A question asked of me once was..Of a choice of beauty or attractiveness which would I prefer.Then I realised both were different..I have a friend who is not exactly pretty but she knows how to dress and this makes her approached and admired by a lot of people....She's got a fit body..trust me...I see a lot of brown skin girls that get rushed constantly but if these guys would only look beyond the skin complexion.(Purposely didn't say colour).
I think it is unfair to mix social problems with beauty but then beauty is jus another money spinning venture as football.And as fada Bob say..."we're so ignorant,evertime they can reach us".
Its a wicked ole world...Most of us adhere to the notion...."and she was so beautiful..she didn't deserve to die like that". as if only ugly people must die.Most of us watch TV and dont even question why most celebrities have a certain look.I can understand why our cubs are the sweetest things but as soon as they become fully grown lions and tigers we are the most feared,frightening and ugly.
The media tell Juan and his colleagues and ourselves that they are prettier people and a lot believe this jus as peer pressure does tell us that overpriced name brands look better than bargain priced fakes made with the same cloth...We dun program da way de...Jus as we all bought the barter system we all accept that our money will be worthless bcoz somebody say so...Its all a game,and I suppose within the rules of the game we must accept that we are inferior or go play your own game.
But then ugliness 2 me..is being unhappy with Halle Berry for the rest of my life when I could of been beautiful laughing and rapping constantly for life with Whoopi Golberg.
Jus as we use the word love to freely,so we use the word beauty.
Love grows..beauty is deep...attractive make me bawl OH LAWD...But the quest for perfection and be the best and have the best in everything is what makes this world so hard...
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They make the world so hard
Oh yes..Mike U jus like to play devils advocate but then mike U did not clarify if U were one of the men who agree with Juan...And I must add that Juan made some good points no matter if they are debatable.
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They make the world so hard
I agree with him on the issue of standard beauty and the color issue in Jamaica.
I definitely do agree that a universal standard for beauty does exist. You see this standard being applied to many, many things on our earth.
The term “beauty is the eye of the beholder” only applies in my opinion when they're disagreements on how many people actually thinks that thing is beautiful, although MOST people may think it is.
That universal standard has started to change. There are two very dark complected fashion models now who are starting to be noticed world wide. One is the girl Samuels from my home town (Santa Cruz, St. Bess)and the other is from Africa I think Sudan. We have been conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to act on a certain stimulus in terms of what is beautiful but had the standard for beauty been the other way around then what? Like any other man I have my preference but I'll tell you one thing as I get older I realize how much more important it is to truly love someone for who they are and for how compatatble they are with you. This has nothing to do with percieved beauty which is really a shallow notion.
I am not sure where to begin. This argument by Juan is clearly poison. Before I start I must state that some time ago a American tv show had a program on some survey that showed that the world had a model of what constitute beauty, interms of physical facial features. They displayed a chart of a face, with the ranges that the eyes, lips cheekbones and etc. would occur and be considered beautiful. They super imposed some celebrities, considered beautiful, on this graphed faced to show how they fit. This was to prove the theory. They used white and black celebrities(dark and lightskinned) and they all fit within the ranges considered beautiful. The main point was that the face had to have a symmetry between all the features of the face. In reading Juan's article I dont get the feeling that the physical layout of the faces of our women and haitians is his main concern but their lack of racial mixture. Has jt has pointed out, I have seen friends fall for light skinned girls that I thought looked average at best and I am sure the complexion was the draw. Juan is entitled to feel that he and his people are beautiful. However his degradition of our women is wrong. It pisses me off. Furthermore, it concerns me that condamnation of his views have not been stronger. I am certain that Juan would not consider Merlene Ottey or brigette foster beautiful. Need I say more? One additional point. Indian women as a group are some of the most beautiful women on earth when one takes only their faces into consideration. However I like to look at the whole woman, head to toe , and so they do nothing for me. This could be cultural on my part or just my personal preference. I have had the pleasure of dating many different races and mixtures of races in my time. And if the right girl came along I would marry her regardless of race, however, a Jamaican girl was always top on my list, and that's what I found. Jamaican women are beautiful on the superficial outside and especialy on the inside. Love the yardie gal dem. Don !Juan dont come back to Jamaica!
Mike I have seen a few but on a hold the full package is missing. Full round butt. Firm strong legs, firm breasts and a body that conveys, strength is required to handle this. This is what I am talking about. Good soccer discussion heh? Love them yardie gal!
Mike U I would hate to make a personal attack on you as I don't know you personally. However you are refusing to acknowledge that it is possible that these girls were selected based on merits. This suggests to me that you are either playing the "devil's advocate" or you are just plain suffering from a case of inferority complex. You have allowed yourself to be locked into what you are told is beautiful. Much the same way that you can't see the intrinsic beauty of abstract art but it does not stop others from being able to appreciate it. It all boils down to what your prefrences are but like Don pointed out, one should be with whoever floats their boat no matter the race or color.
OK so if that is your defenition of good hair versus bad hair , amd so on then i must say that qualify the argument for me then , and by the way i have heard the term alot of times , however MikeU i-man respect the candedness of this thred but i must disagree with the whole theory especially the good hair part .
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOOD HAIR OR BAD HAIR!!! let me get that out there first, now all of the man dem who believe that there is such a thing is wrong and they are only saying what they have been thaught by their masters who was white , the same thing goes for skin color and shape of the nose and lips and butt, gentle men what we really are discussing is the same old superior inferior BS that the europeans have worked so hard to have the peoples of the world believe about them being superior because they are some how further along the evolutionary scale than the restof the world , because they have pale skined and straight hair and thin lips and straight noses ,however we dont live in a word of seclusion and exclusiveness anymore, we live in a world now of information and people who are willing to read and comprehend what they read can easly know the truth about evolution , that its a fake and a unsubstanciated story , there are no fosil records to back up their claims and the ones they do have are man made and not real , these things they have been puting in text books for years now have bin discovered to be fakes and never was real , so there is no prof of the argument that we are the product of evolution
So now where do we go with this superior and inferior argument , i submit to you ,it is going nowhere because its a false premis,and if we can say that with certainty then we can say for sure that anything that stands on that premis is also false , if you remove the foundation , then the house cannot stand, so all the offsprings from this premis are also false ,such as color and looks , but i do admit we are living in a eurocentric world meaning if it does not look like or close to a european, it is not deamed as somthing that look good , come on we know better, lack of knowledge is a sin however its not the end either, because knowledge is out there to be had.....peace...white europeans cannot tell me anything about myself anymore and expect me to believe it ...NO -DREAD--NOO ...the same europeans who have educated the world so far with their ideas have also make them selves out to be God , and we know that to be false ..these are the same people who said that the world was flat .. so why should i believe them now...quote.."EMANCIPATE YOURSELVES FROM MENTAL SLAVERY , NON BUT OURSELVES CAN FREE OUR MINDS"...peace...
Mike, I was of the belief that Indian women had bodies hardly better than chinese women.
It is said that Black women are the most rotund, Hispanics next, whites are "flat"(with a few exceptions) and the indians and chinese have "it" slanting in a very different direction(inside) making them look hunch backed.
Also Mike may I point out no one ages as gracefully as a black woman. Indian women look like 60/70 by the time they are 30 something. Black women retain their youthful look past the half century mark.
Jamaica has 2.4 million people while TT has 1.4. The population of the rest is a joke by comparison. Are you telling me Juan as well as yourself got a look at all our women?
It would be easier to make a judgement on a nation of 100,000 than on one of 2.4mil. But then again you already have your mindset of what is beautiful. To me Mike as long as I like how the girl look she look good to me. She don't have to have this and that to look good. I must be able to look at her and say. Nice! That is why I never had a problem with admiring all types of girls growing up.
The black women I thought looked good it was because I like how what they had fit them. The same went for the white woman I am married to now. The same for the chinese girl I dated in Jamaica. The same for the trinii girl i dated when I was at UWI. When I saw them I liked what I saw. I wasn't noticing how symmetrical their faces were. I must admit that I wanted one type of symmetry to be possessed.
So according to your beliefs Mike, my daughter when she is eventually born should be a sure bet for good looks? I am resting well now. LOL
Anyway Mike. What is your idea of the 1. perfect face, the perfect texture of hair and 3. the perfect body.
I am very interested in hearing your views. I hope black people haven't come so far just to get kicked down again.
Mike do you watch BET Comic View and see how the brown guys joke around and saying how Wesley Snipes came out and all of a sudden light skin guys ain't in with the ladies no more? Could it be what Jah B is saying about a rethinking of beauty is occurring on the women's side as it has been done on the men's. I hope you noticed that Jamaican Tyson Beckford is all the rage in the World. Women of all color rate him the best.
Delano please don't put words in my mouth. I never gave a personal definition on what is pretty or ugly. I know what is pretty from what is ugly.
That is not my definition Atownrudi. That is the widely accepted view. You may disagree with it, but many people accepted it as such.
Jah B, I'm certain that some were accepted on merit. But are all the black models out there given contracts just on merit? Based on what I said was the case in the past, and even today? I don't think we can say that with confidence.
