And the Lord said "Let there be peace" and it was so. The church led by Herro Blair went into the war torn areas last night and held a prayer vigil. The people came out in their numbers and seemed grateful to be able to walk in the streets again. They were given food and fellowship which they showed great appreciation for. It's a sad situation when,due to the locking down of a neighbourhood, women and children are left to go hungry long after the "badmen" have already made their escape. I hope that this new found peace lasts.
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"Good is not good enough where better is expected"
Jah B shouldn't Mr Seaga be denouncing the violence in tivoli as well.Mr Patterson has come out and denounced the violence he making an effort.I want Mr Seaga to stand up be a man.I dont see how he can say the security forces have no business in tivoli. if odered by the prime minister the military and the police can go anywhere in jamaica.Mr seaga is actually saying the police has just taken it upon themselves to go into tivoli and shoot indiscriminatly.He saying his boys are clean.if mr seaga is right which i doubt, then the Government has to be put on trial for those 15 or 20 bodies recovered from tivoli.I am dreaming of a united jamaica, maybe one day, maybe...
I agree with you fire, Seaga had a lot to do with inflaming the situation and should have denounced the violence. Could he have in all good concience done so? Not really because he wants to do whatever to make himself look like the savior while egging on the violent behavior of his constituents.
Seaga's role in thehistory in gun violence is very well documented. He s a @#$%^%$$#$@#$%$$##@ hypocrite as most of the ploiticians are. Bless the Yard Man
There are a number of questions about the violence, that I am seeking answers for.
Before I ask the questions, let me present my understanding of how the violence got escalated. Some months ago, Arnett Gardens'(ruling PNP stronghold)DON was murdered and it is believed that murders came from Tivoli Gardens (opposition JLP stronghold). Consequently, there has been ongoing gun battles between both communities which resulted in the death of 37 people (prior to last saturday). The government came under pressure from the public, particularly from the business leaders, to bring the violence under control. Last Saturday morning the police attempted to go into Tivoli G to search for guns and to apprehend gunmen. They were greeted by heavy gunfire by residents. The resulting hostilities between residents and police caused 25 deaths.
Given the above, here are my questions.
(1)In light of the fact that the initial skirmishes were between Tivoli G and Arnet G, two communities which are heavily armed with illegal weapons, was the government unevenly/unfairly enforcing the law by attempting to disarm Tivoli G alone instead of both communities.
(2)Given that 25 lives have been lost as a result of police attempting to search Tivoli G, if the government decides at this stage to abandon this mission(getting the guns in Tivoli G), how will they be able to justify the lost of lives?? I am asking this question because after 3 days the police have not gone into Tivoli G to begin the search.
(3) Finally, the government is wasting billions of dollars "greasing the palm" of their sympathizers by issuing contracts, couldnt some of these funds be used to build decent homes (on Govt lands over Portmore) for poor people in these depress areas (TG & AG) so as to liberate them from the clutches of politicans/dons?? I suppose this a decsion for politicians, and it is no in their best interest. Selah.
I grew up in Arnett Gardens and unfortunately my friend a lot of those people don't wish to move !
Wah .. Guh pay fi light and water a portmore .. Not to mention rent
Not ah rahtid !!
As for the raids .. Raids have been carried out in all sections of the corporate area.
That same squad even killed a PNP don recently.
Tivoli man seem to have themselves as untouchable and seaga backs them shamelessly.
What was he doing in Miami . It is rumoured he went to secure help from the Cuban community there(They are anti-PNP) to continue his war on the country !
Will someone send him to his friend the Devil please !!
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Rusty you are right on the ball.
Let me state this clearly before I start. I don't support any of the parties in Jamaica. I have never voted and will never vote for any of those clowns.
I strongly believe that it is within the best interest of the JLP if Seaga resign with immediate effect. I can't believe that a past PM could open his mouth and talk such rubbish. He definately needs a good PR person. Even Bill Clinton (the professor) use PR people to talk on his behalf. Seaga should have denounced the voilence in West Kingston when he had the opportunity.
It is also not in the best interest for Jamaica if PNP wins the next election. They have been sitting on there asses ruling for the almost 15 years and has only make things worse.
It is time for new blood to step up and run things. These old guys are out of touch with reality.
PJ is a little snake in the g****. Him, KD Knight and the commisioner going on as if they can't mash ants while they are very devious under the quiet. They are sending out that idiot call Adams to do their dirty work - and he is taking the bait.
I did not hear Seaga said that the police should not come into Tivoli. He said that Adams should not come because he is very partisan and always cause confusion and bloodshed where ever he goes.
I read where people on this forum are bigging up Adams. I have to laugh. What kind of man is this? Isn't this the same man who stood on the head of 7 teenagers while he pump bullets in the back of their heads and then said that it was shootout.
I heard the man talking on the TV and he sounds like a damn idiot to me.
Those people who think that Adams is an hero should explain to the family of the market people who lost their lives trying to make a living. Adams was suppose to be protecting them not killing them.
I heard that some market people were killed from Saturday and the partially decomposed bodies could only be removed on Tuesday. I also heard that in one case dogs actually ate the face of one body. There were people who got shot and could have been save if they were carried to the hospital. Also people got shot when they tried to rescue other victims.
My questions are :
What exactly has Adams achieve from this?
What impact this has on the already fragile Jamaican economy?
Who were the real winners from this?
Who will risk mashing up the country just to hold on to power?
Jt, Portmore is still a good place fi live. Over a month ago, I was in Jamaica and if you see how people turn the little "matches box" houses that Matalon built into some mansions. There are alot of people in Jamaica who only need a start to improve their lives. There are many acres of Govt owned land in St Catherine. The Govt needs to build free housing for the poor people in these depressed areas. Listen the infrastructure is so lacking in some communities, that people have to **** in paper bags and bury it.This is how they pass there waste matter. So if Govt doesnt to address these socio-economic problems, how can there be peace?? There can be no peace if people in Redhills live in luxury and people in the ghettos continue to live in squalor. It is time for the Govt to give poor people a break.
double B: but I heard that people were trying to go pick up bodies during the gun play. That doesn't make any sense.
I won't sit here blind and act like PJ or whoever else don't know that sending Adams in won't cause trouble.
But I can't accept the authorities going into a neighborhood where we now know that there were OBVIOUSLY guns, and not being able to go in because they were being shot up. That is the police. The only "law" we have. At least they will do some token law enforcement and have to fake it once in a while. Gunman don't care, they're there to kill you and sell drugs to your brother. At least with the police we have some people out there to counter the criminals.
I shouldn't say that though because that is acting like they are all bad. They really are not...I take my statement back...but I do know there are many rotten apples.
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Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
Gentle people listen to yourselves. Once again mouths are engaged but your brain is malfunctioning.
"Big up Adams" Guess what Trinity did the same in the 70's to 1980. The result more murders. Nelson did it in the 80's. Still more murders. Bigga Ford & Laing tried it same result more murders. Flying Squad did not do it,ACID did not do it , Special anti-crime task force didn't do it,Operation Intrepid did not do it........... It just gets worse. How long will we continue to prescribe a medicine that makes the patient gets worse.Must be intellectual bankruptcy or just plain wickedness.
Quote: (Finally, the government is wasting billions of dollars "greasing the palm" of their sympathizers by issuing contracts, couldnt some of these funds be used to build decent homes (on Govt lands over Portmore) for poor people in these depress areas (TG & AG) so as to liberate them from the clutches of politicans/dons??)
Is there infrastructure in Portmore to accommodate more houses ? In 1999 it used to take an hour an a half form Braeton to Downtown, a journey that takes 15 minutes on a Sunday morning. That was with dedicated one way traffic over the Causeway. What about sewerage disposal, proper drinking water supply and jobs. Are we suggesting that TG and Jungle be moved to Portmore ? And what problem would that solve ?
This is the same kind of thinking our leaders have and you all see where it has brought us to. It is time to stop acting emotionally when there are a few deaths the go back to business as usual. It time to think and act more and speak less.
Jamaicans are resilient and creative. They don't need govt to build houses for them or even choose the location for them as a matter of fact. What Jamaica needs now are a proper justice system, health system education system and an economy that provides opportunities for people to pull themselves up.
Friday afternoon Adams got a tip that a fresh supply of big and serious, brand-name “machines” were on the way to TG.
That night Adams went to TG to intercept the shipment.
TG man get word sey Adams a come. (Over police radio believe it or not)
Adams having heard that he was late, because the “machines” were already inside TG, decided that at all costs he had to get into TG and hol onto that shipment.
TG send some man up the road to “welcome” Adams’ until the “machines” could either be hidden or sent back out of TG.
Adams used maximum force (nuff shot) on the men sent to meet him and for that matter anything else that moved in the area.
The rest of the TG man dem get vex cause dem sey Adams a gwaan too bad. So every man inside TG go up deh and start fe buss dem tings , dem even bring out the “heavy stuff” fe use on him.
Adams get stuck.
News that Adams was pinned down spread and men from outside of TG joined in the “excitement”. (revolution time and all of that)
And the rest is history…………
Think about it :
1. That puts Adams statement about “ Jamaica will pay dearly for this “ into perspective
2. KD said that “ a lot of what really went on has not been reported”
wey no go so nearly go so.
Have some more soon come.
Oh yeah in all of this Edward Seaga was just being Edward Seaga
Guidance
[This message has been edited by soup_bone1 (edited 07-12-2001).]
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Shaggybear: I agree that if gunmen where trying to pickup their friends and their guns then they should be shot or apprehended (if possible) but I was talking about the innocent market victims who were shot and were probably still alive. I DO NOT CARE ONE BIT ABOUT GUNMEN!!!
Soup_bone: 'wey no go so nearly go so'
What you have written may be true but for now it is purely PNP Popoganda.
I wonder if Adams would have been sent an a similar mission in Arnette Garden.
I also wonder who Adams is taking his command from : The Commissioner, KD Knight or PJ. How could one group of police fire 2000 rounds of ammunitions in one day in one community is beyond me.
Yes, I am thinking about the statement made by Adams when he says 'Jamaica will pay dearly for this'. I am also wondering who does he think he is to make such statement on national TV.
This statement could be interpreted a thousand possible ways.
You really need to know what is the meaning of the word this as used this context to get at what he is saying.
[This message has been edited by Double B (edited 07-13-2001).]
Aaah boy!! We will never know the half of the story but when a man come from England for the first time in 30 years and can't even make it home from the airport......but wi on and on about Adams this and Adams that. The police wicked an bad and the gunmen wicked an bad. The larger issue is that the politicans have created this atmosphere of violence and should be the ones to take the blame. Not being able to come to a consensus on a simple issue such as this reflects the exact reason why the Jamaican society is like it is.
AFTER DAYS of slaughter and mayhem private sector organisation members visit Tivoli, some declaring they are astonished at the poverty that surrounds them.
The Church tours, prays and makes comments about soldiers on rooftops carrying high-powered weapons.
Political positions take precedence over national interest. Security forces are engaged in guerrilla warfare as well as containing mindless acts of civil disobedience in communities everyone knows to be ever ready at such times.
Why are we so astonished, intimidated, or surprised? The poverty did not grow overnight. We see soldiers with loaded high-powered weapons every day, the political vision is never further than the next election, project or nine-day wonder while our security forces have to be all things to all men as our citizens openly disregard the laws of the land.
This is our country, we have perpetrated the poverty, allowed the political machines to create and perpetrate the ghetto politics and looked on while law and order has been eroded and replaced by mob rule.
Enough! Everyone has to take a part of the blame and shame. We all hide our heads in the sand as the country, like a vehicle out of control, careens towards a fatal collision.
The politicians have to understand they are our representatives and we are not satisfied. Life and the well being of our nation is not a game to be played across the floor of Gordon House.
We want to hear debate and solutions not the trading of words! Now! It is JAMAICAN not PNP or JLP written on the nationality paper, it is KINGSTON not Tivoli written on the map. We demand solutions that will uplift the nation not a party or enclave. And you my brother man what will your role be? Will you stand up for equal rights and justice for all, for the rule of law and live by it? Will you reach out your hand to help up instead of pushing down? Will you be a proud Jamaican and say no to the erosion of the moral fibre of the nation, to words and deeds that teach our children that you must put yourself first at the expense of others? Will you stand against the purge of drugs, dons, and gunmen who threaten our very existence as an independent nation?
Remember it cannot be only the politicians who have to be honest and take the hard decisions. It is for everyone, no matter where you live, your calling, religion, race or creed. As long as you are a Jamaican it is your responsibility, the situation is critical.
Guns, ammunition, drugs, dons, gangsters and warlords and oppression must be stopped. Our people must have equal opportunity and a standard of living that is acceptable, nothing less. Enough is enough. The PSOJ and Church have taken the point position.
Will our politicians rise to the occasion, begin the debate and engage the nation in solving the problems, rekindling the spirit and aspirations that we have for this our nation and make the collective vision a reality?
By Stuart Reeves who is principal of Jamaica College.
