We certainly do not want to go 'backward' by each of the dons and their posse from yard grabbing a nuclear battleship and sailing to each of the RICH countries threatening them to hand over the Loot taken from the colonies or we gonna enslave their citizenship because from what I read slavery not pretty. I would have to volunteer for duty on the battleship to avoid enslavement. Jus like those blokes who were sent to the Caribbean with nutten and became our masters.
Heh
How can you reverse 400 years of under Maasah?
As Morgan Freeman said in the movie 'Shawshank Redemption' after his release from prison, 'I have have been asking permission to pee for 40 years'. Imagine 10 generations of our foreparents asking permission to pee for 400 years. And now some expect us to hold our own against our imperial masters after not quite 40 years. Still 40 years down, 360 to go, we are gonna giving it our best. Here we come. France '98 was jus the tip of the iceberg. Jus keep giving us those work permits, thank you.
Jamaica, No Problem! Wi likkle, but wi nuh fraid a nuhbadi!
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
In order to be "rich", you have to have "poor". No poor, no rich. No rich, no poor. Someone's richness is measured upon hoiw much more he has in relation to the average man. Think about it, in 1000 yrs being a millionaire might mean nothing.
On the point of debt, when the US invaded Cuba in 1898 (correct me if the year is wrong) to "liberate" (LOL) it from Spain, one of the first things it did was cancel the debt that Cuba was under.
It did this on the basis that the debts incurred by Cuba were forced upon the general populace by duress from Spain.
Much of the Third World debt, by that reasoning, was also forced upon the countries. Nearly all dictators during the last thirty years were puppets of either side during the Cold War.
They were allowed to do whatever they liked as long as they let the big companies in and didn't play ball with the other side. If they wanted to have civil war or the dictator wanted to silence a million dissenters, that's ok as longas the gold, oil etc.. was readily available.
Loans were given to them, much of which was still in Western banks where they charged interest on the loan AND used the money to make even more money, and these loans were allowed to be frittered away by the dictator to his Swiss bank account, There's a reason why they stay neutral you know!!
After he leaves, it is the people who didn't ask for the loan, the general population, who have to pay.
How do they pay?
By giving up all ownership of land and means of production to big corporate bodies, working for s*** wages, allowing the big guys to force national policy abroad etc..
Result: We move from the overt cntrol of colonial oppressors to the covert control of silent boardrooms.
The IMF, which gave out most of its loans to UNDEMOCRATIC countries, has admitted that if it was to cancel all the debts it knew were given to dictators and none of it reached the people on the ground, it would be bankrupted.
We have to remove from the world, this neoliberal idea that capitalism is democracy and democracy is capitalism.
Capitalism works to ensure that the wealthy few have control over the "enslaved" many. It is totally undemocratic because it places the wishes of companies (which themselves are undemocratic and very totalitarian) over that of the people at large.
Organisations like the WTO, allow big companies to complain and remove control of a countries economy from the hanmds of its "democratic" government.
So the huge corporations, who buy the presidents, control the world economy and force what policy is made by governments.
The idea of the "free" marekt is drummed into everyone and the message of its competitiveness, fairness and efficiency is expounded upon. Yet the market is dominated by huge corporations that face little competition and exude huge control! Hardly competitive, fair or efficient.
Since the world is centred around this "free" market, the world is therefore undemocratic.
Western powers have in the post WW2 era, removed or sort to remove any government, democratic or not, that has refused to play the "game" Eg. Allende in Chile, Italy in 1948, Cuba etc...
Hence the idea that nationalism and the idea that a country can strive for self sufficiency where possible is bad.
In the neoliberal plutocraices that are being set up across the world, instead of building commnities and citizens, we are producing shopping malls and consumers.
However, the greatest strength of the global order and its neoliberalism, is its ability to silence anyone who disapporves of the status quo and expresses an alternative. It is assumed that what we have now is the perfect solution.
It is very interesting to note that $40.billion was found overnight to fight terroism,but yet we have so many people here living in poverty,trying to survive on the minimum wage,which this government refuses to raise eg.the security people at the airports earning something like $5.95 cent per hour,while those large corporation are only thinking about profits and what will be traded on the stock markets.Then there is the problem of A.I.D.S and STARVATION and other suffering all over the world while these governments and large corporation turn a blind eye,.... yeah they might prop up a $100 million here or there but if they are truly dedicated to helping rid this world of all the inequalities it can be done. No all they think about is the bottomline the amount of PROFIT that is made yearly.This atittude will only continue to drive hatred in the eyes of the many that are suffering and the trend will continue.Declaring war on one group or one country will not solve the problem it will only escalate the problem.I however feel that those who are responsible must be made to pay but WAR IS NOT the answer,because we will only be going down a road that will eventually lead to the total destruction of MANKIND with the touch of a button.We must find another way and the answer is there for us to see but will we see it?.
Herbie and Bolton B. maybe you can help me with some answers from your perspective. I have always wondered and have asked this of many learned people; what is it that allowed the white man to be so much more advanced in his thinking, which made him able to dominate us all through out history? Even the most intellegent black inventors never got the credit they deserved (eg the telephone that was actually invented by a black man, or the ability to store plasma etc). This is proof that the black man has always posessed a high level of intellegence but for some reason we have been one step behind the white man in our thinking. Why could'nt we have done the dominating instead? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against whites in general only burning questions about our history together.
I think most people agree Russian that war is not the answer. Development, understanding and education has to be the answer.
Forgive me for tracking back through the thread a little but Jah B and Russian seamed to clarifing the bauxite issue for me. By firstly saying what a shame this avenue of wealth creation has been closed, and secondly acepting it needn't have been.
Well ok so what can be used to create wealth that doesn't envolve bauxite but another gift/blessing that Jamaica or the people has?
I hear about the loans from rich banks. I thought our shower of dog dirt had written off some loans. Is this not the case? Is it propaganda? Which banks are stills demanding repayments? If anyone knows please post them.
Does anyone know how the OPEC countries formed and then stuck to their rigid cartel? Rich nations take their power as red now even though it flies in the face of free trade and capitalism that is consistantly preached.
Sorry there are loads of questions in this - but I'm thinking and need factual input.
Am I right in thinking that Trinidad has the worlds largest resource of tar/bitumen? If so who owns that?
Chez, I take the point about rich and poor being a comparison, but the poor can still be classed as poor yet have a full, healthy free and stable life just without the BMW.
Yes Russian.... and when that little african man mixed two herbs and highlighted how he had medicine that contained aids. The international medical community,acted fast to discredited this so as to keep their medicine bringing in the corn. Just like the weed.
But I dont think you guys heard what Chez is saying.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chez: In order to be "rich", you have to have "poor". No poor, no rich. No rich, no poor. Someone's richness is measured upon hoiw much more he has in relation to the average man. Think about it, in 1000 yrs being a millionaire might mean nothing.
On the point of debt, when the US invaded Cuba in 1898 (correct me if the year is wrong) to "liberate" (LOL) it from Spain, one of the first things it did was cancel the debt that Cuba was under.
It did this on the basis that the debts incurred by Cuba were forced upon the general populace by duress from Spain.
Much of the Third World debt, by that reasoning, was also forced upon the countries. Nearly all dictators during the last thirty years were puppets of either side during the Cold War.
They were allowed to do whatever they liked as long as they let the big companies in and didn't play ball with the other side. If they wanted to have civil war or the dictator wanted to silence a million dissenters, that's ok as longas the gold, oil etc.. was readily available.
Loans were given to them, much of which was still in Western banks where they charged interest on the loan AND used the money to make even more money, and these loans were allowed to be frittered away by the dictator to his Swiss bank account, There's a reason why they stay neutral you know!!
After he leaves, it is the people who didn't ask for the loan, the general population, who have to pay.
How do they pay?
By giving up all ownership of land and means of production to big corporate bodies, working for s*** wages, allowing the big guys to force national policy abroad etc..
Result: We move from the overt cntrol of colonial oppressors to the covert control of silent boardrooms.
The IMF, which gave out most of its loans to UNDEMOCRATIC countries, has admitted that if it was to cancel all the debts it knew were given to dictators and none of it reached the people on the ground, it would be bankrupted.
We have to remove from the world, this neoliberal idea that capitalism is democracy and democracy is capitalism.
Capitalism works to ensure that the wealthy few have control over the "enslaved" many. It is totally undemocratic because it places the wishes of companies (which themselves are undemocratic and very totalitarian) over that of the people at large.
Organisations like the WTO, allow big companies to complain and remove control of a countries economy from the hanmds of its "democratic" government.
So the huge corporations, who buy the presidents, control the world economy and force what policy is made by governments.
The idea of the "free" marekt is drummed into everyone and the message of its competitiveness, fairness and efficiency is expounded upon. Yet the market is dominated by huge corporations that face little competition and exude huge control! Hardly competitive, fair or efficient.
Since the world is centred around this "free" market, the world is therefore undemocratic.
Western powers have in the post WW2 era, removed or sort to remove any government, democratic or not, that has refused to play the "game" Eg. Allende in Chile, Italy in 1948, Cuba etc...
Hence the idea that nationalism and the idea that a country can strive for self sufficiency where possible is bad.
In the neoliberal plutocraices that are being set up across the world, instead of building commnities and citizens, we are producing shopping malls and consumers.
However, the greatest strength of the global order and its neoliberalism, is its ability to silence anyone who disapporves of the status quo and expresses an alternative. It is assumed that what we have now is the perfect solution.
_________________________
They make the world so hard
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 440
Loc: Houston, TX USA
Offline
jt if my memory serves me right after dedicating an entire artile discrediting di likkle african man, the lastline in the article stated that "he was being courted by all the major western drug companies". ???????????????????????????????
You guys certainly know how to put me on a guilt-trip!!! (Even though my sympathies are with you). OH, to be English. Hooliganism, barbaric holiday-makers, ex-invaders, upholders of capitalism.....
....but my hands are clean (like millions of other fellow compatriots). For those who accuse me of "enjoying the loot", I have never KNOWINGLY supported any company/organisation that extorts others. What else can I do?
Herbie, my question is a genuine one without an attempt to lay any blame. I am not blaming you for what happened years ago. I am where I am in my career, because of an impartial white man, who saw that I was capable of doing my job. He sought me out for a promotion I was not seeking. This does not however negate the fact that there are white snakes out there, as a matter of fact, there are also black snakes out there too. Be that as it may, please go back and read my question and let me know if you have any thoughts on the matter. BTW Guidance, respect. I guess my next question would be, how comes wi could'nt beat them to the tiefing game?
Peace
[This message has been edited by Jah B (edited 09-16-2001).]
Originally posted by boltonbilly: Chez, I take the point about rich and poor being a comparison, but the poor can still be classed as poor yet have a full, healthy free and stable life just without the BMW.
As I said Billy, rich and poor is a comparison. However, poverty is filled with some form of hardship.
ANother thing that I have come across on my travels.
There is a man called Joseph Stiglitz, he used to be an economic advisor to Clinton and is a former Chief Economist of the World Bank.
He stated how badly the World Bank/IMF is run.
If a country approaches these institutions for a loan, they are supposed to send a delegatuion to the country and after much fact finding produce a report detailing where the country goes wrong and what steps the country must take (after receving the loan) to drag itself out of its troubles.
With me?
However, according to Stiglitz, instead of doing this fact finding mission, the team would get out a copy of a previous loan agreement and just use the Find/Replace function to remove the name of the old country and replace it with the new country.
Now this did not work properly on a few occasions and the country taking out the loan received a contract with its name halfway through the document only to see another name pop up halfway through!!
Now we all know that these loans all call for cuts in health, education, agriculture, removal of policies to protect local producers, opening up local markets to cheaper mass produced goods from already developed nations (i.e. exactly what developing nations DON'T need!) and since the World Bank/IMF are sending out standard documents.
Which leads me to ask what is their agenda? Why are they so happy to readily see poor people even poorer?
Originally posted by Jah B: [B]BTW Guidance, respect. I guess my next question would be, how comes wi could'nt beat them to the tiefing game?
B]
Remember the story of Esau and Jacob. Esau was at the point of death and begged His Brother for 2 spoon a porridge and Jacob, the swindler would not let off the porridge b4 Esau swap him his birthright for the likkle porridge.
Well since then many of Esaus could have survived with a likkle porridge but their govts. for one reason or another sold the birthrights(to live decently as human beings, in fact to live, period) for a likkle porridge.
The Jacobs in this world only have one thing on their mind; to be rich and prosperous 'by any means necessary'. The Esaus are so peaceful and loving and are always getting cunned.
If you keep reading you will see Jacob reaps what he sows.
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
Herbie and Bolton B. maybe you can help me with some answers from your perspective. I have always wondered and have asked this of many learned people; what is it that allowed the white man to be so much more advanced in his thinking, which made him able to dominate us all through out history? Even the most intellegent black inventors never got the credit they deserved (eg the telephone that was actually invented by a black man, or the ability to store plasma etc). This is proof that the black man has always posessed a high level of intellegence but for some reason we have been one step behind the white man in our thinking. Why could'nt we have done the dominating instead? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against whites in general only burning questions about our history together.
Phew, a tough one. I don't think you actually want anybody to "dominate" do you? Anyway, I understand what you're getting at so I'll have a stab at answering you.
Scientific studies have found no differences between the brains of different races of humans, so it would seem obvious to suggest that there is no difference in brainpower or intelligence.
My theory about the points you raise is as follows: the further away from the equator you travel, the colder it is. Over thousands of years ideas developed to enable the humans that inhabited these regions to live comfortably in their environment. This enterprise was fuelled out of necessity.
Then, of course, we have the many battles between Saxons, Vikings, Romans etc... These various invasions helped to spread ideas, whilst also fuelling the development of weaponry - again out of necessity - so that civilisations could both defend and conquer.
In the days when travel was more dangerous and took far longer, Africa was an unexplored wilderness to the majority of Europeans. As a result, the centuries-worth of developmental ideas did not reach the African people. Their weaponary was no match for that of the Europeans' (who had concentrated their efforts on developing them).
The Greek and Roman civilisations introduced systems of government, education, welfare, justice, policing etc... which our modern democracies are built on.
So, there you have it! My theory relies on the difference in climate and warfare. Of course, once systems of government, education etc. were established, learning & development was carried-out for it's own sake. The search for the Truth about our universe became the major motivator.
Has anyone else got a better theory than the one I've outlined?
Hrr Sir, on education: when Africa had several centuries old Universities, Europe had none.
When Africa midwives were not losing one newborn to stillbirth or premature deaths, Europe had a very high rate of premie deaths! Hence European doctors including Brits travelled to Africa to learn about pre-natal care. The knowledge moved from Africa to Europe not the other way around. Mama Africa!
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One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
Sir Herbie, check out some books by Ivan Van Sertima, you may just learn a thing or two to discuss with your history professor. Warning: Several of Van Sertima's hi-profile scholarly associates are going all out to discredit his works. But truth struck to the ground will always rise again. Enjoy.
BOOKS Books by Dr. Van Sertima, editor of the Journal of African Civilizations
----------------------------------------------------- ------ African Presence in Early America. African Presence in Early Asia. African Presence in Early Europe. Black Women in Antiquity. Blacks in Science: Ancient and Modern. Egypt Revisited. Egypt: Child of Africa. Golden Age of the Moor. Great Black Leaders: Ancient and Modern.
Btw when African civilization were enjoying running water in their homes, Europeans still had to put up with the inconvenience of latrines. I wonder what arrangement they had in the winter on those Cold nights, heh heh. Oops, now it is the other way around mi friend.
[This message has been edited by Guidance (edited 09-17-2001).]
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One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
