Registered: 02/08/01
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Chez, chez, chez, chez, chez, I don't have time to include portions of your posts here and knock the points down one by one, but let me ask you this, Ghandi.
Tell me what capitalism at work looks like!
And since your so versed in everything, tell me about the 20/80 rule and how it relates to what you consider good economics!
And to the loser (i forgot who)who had nothing else to say but question my use of the word n*gga. Get a damn life man. Be like chez and pick up a book. Maybe then you'll have something to contribute.
Heh heh. Man a come ask bout 20/80 rule. What does knowledge of that "rule" (or lack thereof) have to do with anything. everybody know it is equal to 1/4.
hehehhheh. Ask a harder question
_________________________
Obama/Biden 2012 - We need people who actually think in charge, though they should learn to lead!
Originally posted by Red Hills Man: Chez, chez, chez, chez, chez, I don't have time to include portions of your posts here and knock the points down one by one, but let me ask you this, Ghandi.
Tell me what capitalism at work looks like!
Hold it right there! You want me to educate you? You accuse me of memorising and reciting every economics textbook and now you want me to come and recite them to you.
I could give you massive examples of capitalism at work but would that solve anything or add to the level of debate? No it wouldn't because every ite here knows and sees capitalism at work.
That is a stupid request. I have beenm highlighting where capitalism IS NOT working and where steps have to be used to fine tune it for the benefit of ALL MANKIND. But maybe that principle is on to high a level of consciousness for you?
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And since your so versed in everything, tell me about the 20/80 rule and how it relates to what you consider good economics!
I've never claimed to be knowledgeable about everything. I'm just a man with simple goals, ideals and morals. What I know I know, What I don't know I research and not assume.
How much reseacrh or facts have you given in this thread. Very little (well at least in comparison to myself). You say you are too busy to knock down my posts yet you want me to even post more stuff here. I don't work for you.
Go ahead. Knock down my posts but don't try to tell me what I must post for you as some form of test.
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Be like chez and pick up a book. Maybe then you'll have something to contribute.
But you said my posts were nothing but good grammar and full of idiotic remarks. How comes I have something to contribute now?
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 234
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Chez said: "Hold it right there! You want me to educate you? You accuse me of memorising and reciting every economics textbook and now you want me to come and recite them to you."
All you have been showing us is what you say is not working with capitalism, but you say capitalism can work for "all of mankind." Tell us how, or where! And make sure your'e not describing socialism.
Chez said: "I'm just a man with simple goals, ideals and morals."
Exactly, your are an idealist. Atleast you can admit it now.
Chez said: "What I know I know, What I don't know I research and not assume."
Exactly, again. You read alot and repeat other communists' idealist ideas. You have no thought of your own. That's why all you can do is present direct quotes with no explanation.
Chez said: "How much reseacrh or facts have you given in this thread. Very little (well at least in comparison to myself)."
Thanks once again for agreeing with me. I use knowledge to form conclusions. What I present here are MY conclusions. What you do is repeat exactly what you see in the book. Education is designed to stimulate your cognative abilities, not have you memorize text and vomit it out to people, with no thought of your own. You probably have the communist book in your lap as you write these posts. Dork.
Chez said: "You say you are too busy to knock down my posts yet you want me to even post more stuff here. I don't work for you."
Uh huh. It sounds like you don't work at all.
Chez said: "But you said my posts were nothing but good grammar and full of idiotic remarks. How comes I have something to contribute now?"
I didn't say you have anything to contribute. I said that clearly, you read. That's all.
Registered: 02/08/01
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BTW,
I hope you people are joking, who say that the 20/80 rule is 1/4 or whatever the hell it was that you said.
Chez, aka Mr Book, I challenge you to look up the 20/80 rule in a statistics or any quantitative methods book. When you see that. You will know why the smallest portion of the population has most of its wealth.
Originally posted by Red Hills Man: All you have been showing us is what you say is not working with capitalism, but you say capitalism can work for "all of mankind." Tell us how, or where! And make sure your'e not describing socialism.
I've already given some examples on how I feel the system can be tweaked. I won't give them again. Search and read.
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Exactly, your are an idealist. Atleast you can admit it now.
I said so a long time ago. Maybe, as seems your norm, you weren't reading. EVERYONE has ideals and aims to or hopes, at some level, that they achieve. Mandela, King Jnr, Gandhi etc.. are/were all idealists. I can only hope that I am even 1% of as much an idealist as them. You're trying to make it sound like a crime or a sin. Come off your high horse!
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Exactly, again. You read alot and repeat other communists' idealist ideas. You have no thought of your own. That's why all you can do is present direct quotes with no explanation.
I've given loads of verbal explanations. The very fact is what I say doesn't matter as much in an argument about rich and poor. You act rich and talk rich but you don't know about what is going on in the world. I do because I've been around it and seen the action from the frontlines so to speak.
If I can give you condemnation of the present system from the very sources that are pushing it then that is worth 100 times my voice. From their own mouth they shall be damned.
Structural Adjustment policies, neo-liberalism etc.. are just facets and tools of our late 20th/early 21st world of capitalism. They are add-ons, kind of like how you download patches/updates for computer programs where a lot are filled with bugs.
You are defender of US capitalism (which is backed up by huge defence budgets and the principle of “do as I say, not as I do”) and I am the attacker of corrupt capitalism (which is being practiced everywhere) yet you want me to defend my actions.
While you are sitting wherever you are, can you tell me what’s so good about the present world system that increases the division between billions of poor and makes just a small amount rich.
I'm sorry. I forgot. You class yourself amongst the rich so you will use anything to defend the system.
"Stone a river bottom nuh know how sun hot"
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Thanks once again for agreeing with me. I use knowledge to form conclusions. What I present here are MY conclusions. What you do is repeat exactly what you see in the book. Education is designed to stimulate your cognative abilities, not have you memorize text and vomit it out to people, with no thought of your own. You probably have the communist book in your lap as you write these posts. Dork.
Now! Now! No need to get personal RHM. If I'm such a dork, why are you taking time out to reply to me? I'm a qualified engineer by trade and that has taken me all over the world to work. I've seen poverty. I've seen people whose poverty has drawn me close to tears. What I know, I know. You are only assuming stuff about me.
Where have you been and seen what is happening in the world?
Have you been to India, Pakistan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Russia, Kazakhstan, Japan, South Korea, Australia amongst others?
Have you been to Libya and seen how the country is instead of what people are telling you about Qaddafi?
If you are writing a book and give facts and don't back them up with some other source in the form of footnotes etc.. it will fall flat. In such an emotive subject it is best that I do that. So more facts will be forthcoming from me whether you like it or not.
What have I posted around here that is communist?
Oh I forgot, you live in the US where communism is almost put on a par as racism and anyone who attacks the land of milk and honey and the gravy train for the land of the free and the home of the brave is a communist.
McCarthyism is no longer a viable option RHM. Grow up.
You keep saying that US brand capitalism is the best in the world and that until another system can be found then it should remain. Yet the same was said about slavery and apartheid by the leaders.
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Uh huh. It sounds like you don't work at all.
Another personal attack. This shows your immaturity. I will let this slide I’m a bigger man than you.
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I didn't say you have anything to contribute. I said that clearly, you read. That's all.
Yes that’s all I do. Sure.
So let’s see what these last few tirades from you are all about. Seeing as you have done nothing to knock down my points about world poverty I can only assume you agree since silence is consent.
So let’s look at some of what you, the enlightened one, have had to add to the party
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Originally posted by Red Hills Man: Bottom line: if any third world country does n't like the deal they are getting from another country, then stop dealing with that country and become self sufficient.
This is a post that can ONLY come from someone who doesn’t understand how the world political, economic and military systems are intertwined.
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Originally posted by Red Hills Man:Self sufficient: stop depending on the big boys for hand outs and preferential treatment that they don't deserve, then crying like babies when it is threatened. I respect Cayman. Cayman has far less resources than us(JA) but found a way to command respect. Do you think that the G7 wanted Japan in it - hell no. But Japan did what they had to do and gave the world no choice but to accept them. Any country that cannot do that needs to keep eating their hand-outs and shut the hell up.
This is the quote from the man who didn’t know Cayman was a British dependency. Or even more distressing from the man who uses knowledge to from conclusions. He states that the G7 didn’t want Japan in it. That’s funny seeing that Japan was one of the FOUNDING members of the G6 in 1975 which became the G7 on Canada’s entry in 1977.
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Originally posted by Red Hills Man: Each man looks out for himself but ends up helping everyone in the big picture.
Yeah, sure and I just got married to Jennifer Lopez
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Originally posted by Red Hills Man: If you can't compete in the open market, get out of it. That's the bottom line. Y'all remind me of those people who say blacks should support crappy black movies just because they are black movies. That's bull. And it is because of that that black film makers are making movies with weak and unimaginative story lines, because they know a couple loyal blacks will spend money on anything they release.
I as a person living in the US don't want to eat inferior bananas because Jamaica has preffered status.
It’s obvious you have some issues you need to address because nearly every post you make is about “you people” and “black people” or “you Jamaicans” and the changes they need to make. Your final remark there showed a compete ignorance about the banana trade war.
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Originally posted by Red Hills Man: Well I have not done the following: Protested in the streets Donate money to the poor donated my time to ANY civic or social cause but, My family has operated a succesful business for many years that generated hundreds of thousands of dollars for jamaica's economy as well as foriegn exchange through export. And we also provided employment for, dozens of people at a time, from the Red Hills Road area. And by interacting with people everyday in the US, I help discredit the image of Jamaicans being violent, uneducated, ignorant beggers.
I knew it! You involve yourself in nothing that may upset the status quo because it is that which has made you rich. Yet you attack as an idealist (which I should add isn’t an insult but a compliment) someone who tries to exact change.
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Originally posted by Red Hills Man: Capitalism uses the basic human quality of greed as its bases. As each individual looks out for himself, we all benefit.
Greed is a quality? And since when has being greedy ensured that everyone benefits?
“Mama I’m still hungry!” “What? You’ve just had your dinner. I have no more the rest is for your father and sister” “Please” “Okay, eat most of it and leave them just a little bit. They will benefit.”
You’ve accused me of not working, being unable to do anything but read and have claimed I want to benefit from other people’s work. What have I done to you and what is it I am saying that affects you so? I haven’t slept with your girl or stepped on your corn but you seem to be incessant in your condemnation of me.
And on top of it with all your big degree you’ve just got around to cut and paste. Maybe in another two years you might know what UBB code is.
If you want to debate and reason. Then let’s go ahead. If you want us all here to knock heads to come up with something that could possibly be the beginning of something brighter for the world’s future then I’m up for it.
However, if all you want to do is cast aspersions about my employment, education level or ideals then I will be a bigger man and ignore every post that you make.
What say you?
[This message has been edited by Chez (edited 10-10-2001).]
Originally posted by Red Hills Man: Chez, aka Mr Book, I challenge you to look up the 20/80 rule in a statistics or any quantitative methods book. When you see that. You will know why the smallest portion of the population has most of its wealth.
I don't accept your challenge as i already know about the "vital few and the trivial many" rule also known as the 20/80 or by the better name given by J. Juran, the Pareto Principle.
It desn' always manifest as 20:80 but sometimes comes out as 60:40 and 90:10 or 20:20:60
You don't have to go to an economics textbook as it surfaces in quality control and time menagement also.
You can even use it on bulletin boards.
20% of the crap on this board is made up of 80% of the stuff Red Hills Man writes.
Or even more succinct.
I spend 20% of my internet time at Reggaeboyz.com where 80% of the foolishness comes from Red Hills Man.
The Pareto Principle is an effective management tool that produces valuable information in simple terms.
While it may be a universal rule, it is not a law of science just a rule of thumb.
The specific proportion will varies from industry, economy and product.
For a man who accuses me of reciting from a book how comes the first thing you want me to do is run for a book?
[This message has been edited by Chez (edited 10-10-2001).]
Blow Wow, I have never seen one man get dismantled so completely and with so much class. RHM you have been shown up as a fool, I suggest you quit while the going is good.
Chez, it appears that you've debated this topic so often that you've become an expert on it. You made some excellent points while maintaining your objectivity just like when I asked you about Nandi and Kelly yes I'ven't forgotten. I can see now why you gave up your soccer career it's call opportunity cost but it's obvious you made the right choice.
RHM, this is a discussion you're not going to win in the eyes of the masses even if your points were well articulated and factual, however debating this with the architects of the system you may've better luck.
BTW-chez, I'ven't read the book but the inferior product thing is subjective or a matter of perception.
Registered: 02/08/01
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First of all. I will deal with Chez when i get home and have time. But i am glad to see that he admits he is an engineer or in some form or another a scientist (no dumbasses not a chemist). Scientist are not conditioned to think qualitatively. They know that if you apply formula x, you will always get result y. Inately he cannot reason, that is why he quotes all day. but as i said when i get home and have more time i'll deal with him more specifically.
as for you other two, i don't care about impressing y'all or makingy'all thinkk that i'm right. Youare proof that the masses are asses, looking for someone to tell them what to think. If you say chez put me in my place, tell me how, specifically. You idiots just like his style of presentation and assume that he knows what he's talking about. He's a damn engineer (or alteast so he claims), he actullay reminds me of those people who get out of jail quoting various writers and using big words to try to convince people that it's the system that put him in jail, not the crime he committed.
You two idiots can't even varify anything that he is saying.
Originally posted by Red Hills Man: First of all. I will deal with Chez when i get home and have time. But i am glad to see that he admits he is an engineer or in some form or another a scientist (no dumbasses not a chemist).
How can I admit to being an engineer? Did anyone accuse me of being one?
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Scientist are not conditioned to think qualitatively. They know that if you apply formula x, you will always get result y.
I'm an engineer not a scientist. These are different but seeing as another inate prejudice of yours is coming through (i.e. assumptions about the thought processes of people in different professions), I don't expect you to understand that.
Seein as you say "if you apply formula x, you will always get result y, why is it you just asked me to look up the 20/80 rule as an example of why the few always have most of the wealth. Isn't that a formula also.
Considering economics, politics, international finance and law to name a few are actually social sciences are you saying that people who study these things aren't able to think qualitatively?
Wait! You are studying marketing and international business (or so you claim) that makes you a social scientist.
By your own mouth ye shall be damned.
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Inately he cannot reason, that is why he quotes all day. but as i said when i get home and have more time i'll deal with him more specifically.
The person you should be dealing with more specifically is your girl. Because it will be wasted on me. I gave you a chance to reason civilly with me and you blew it.
Seeing as you claim that my presumed inability to reason is inate. What you are really claiming is that I have been unable to reason since birth. Another cheap shot.
As of now on, I will disregard anything you post even if contained the phone number of the world's most beautiful woman. Whenever I see Red Hills Man I will pass over it.
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Youare proof that the masses are asses, looking for someone to tell them what to think.
Yet I'm sure you want to tell them what to think. Your condescending manner will get you nowhere. Learn that.
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If you say chez put me in my place, tell me how, specifically. You idiots just like his style of presentation and assume that he knows what he's talking about.
They might like my style because it's not filled with scorn and vitriol for everyone and the assumption that you know everything about someone from their posts which gives you the right to abuse.
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He's a damn engineer (or alteast so he claims),
LOL
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he actullay reminds me of those people who get out of jail quoting various writers and using big words to try to convince people that it's the system that put him in jail, not the crime he committed.
So now I'm like a criminal. Do you speak to much of them?
Originally posted by terminator: Chez, it appears that you've debated this topic so often that you've become an expert on it.
Actually no. This is how I debate, not argue, about everything. Notice how on other posts about things I am not so sure about, I keep my silence.
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You made some excellent points while maintaining your objectivity just like when I asked you about Nandi and Kelly yes I'ven't forgotten.
I don't remember talking about Nandi and Kelly with you. Sure you have the right person my friend?
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I can see now why you gave up your soccer career it's call opportunity cost but it's obvious you made the right choice.
My soccer career? Wow! I've never had one. You ARE mixing me up with someone else. Not to worry that happens.
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RHM, this is a discussion you're not going to win in the eyes of the masses even if your points were well articulated and factual, however debating this with the architects of the system you may've better luck.
Therein lies the problem. Why does a debate have to be about winning? Why can't it be about heads coming together and reaching concusion/solution? That's just thinking anyway.
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BTW-chez, I'ven't read the book but the inferior product thing is subjective or a matter of perception.
Why can't it be about heads coming together and reaching concusion...?
Concussion, or conclusion? LOL!
Anyway Chez, it's about time you stopped responding to every bit of nonsense that RHM comes out with. He isn't prepared to listen, so you're wasting your time. What can you tell someone who already has all the answers (not!)?
Man a come ask bout 20/80 rule. What does knowledge of that "rule" (or lack thereof) have to do with anything. everybody know it is equal to 1/4.
