I can see from time you were in the middle but your support towards capitalism was a bit confusing...
I knew from your nigerian connection that herbluva would grasp on the oint of the poor helping themselves. I dont think no one disagreed with the concept bcoz we all agreed that we dont advocate the thoughts of red hills man.(that we are waiting for handouts) What we were trying to get across to u herbluva is that we would gladly love to help ourselves especially after learning and being indoctrinated by the west's phylosophy of capitalism and democracy... but it does not work for us, the poor. Not that it couldn't just that it doesn't. Of course U have now accepted the same points previously stated.
So yes, we should help ourselves but easier said than done. many have tried.But the west has many tricks to keep U down.The rich as U have said..will not share or give it up.
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They make the world so hard
Jt, I'm surprised that you found my argument confusing since I repeated my position several times but I'll clarify again even though we're talking about a number of issues. Globilization which is administered throught the WB and IFM haved caused harm to the domestic economies BUT it alone should not be held soley responsible since CORRUPTION, MISMANAGEMENT OF CAPITAL, AND POOR LEADERS SHOULD ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE that's my point period. I can get into the benefits of globilization and capitalism for those who benefits but I don't have the time plus we're living it. Furthermore, It can work for these economies but there have to be reforms in the way it's administered with the domestic economies at utmost importance but I'll not support inferior products, if you can't compete within reason then sorry.
Originally posted by terminator: Jt, I'm surprised that you found my argument confusing since I repeated my position several times but I'll clarify again even though we're talking about a number of issues. Globilization which is administered throught the WB and IFM haved caused harm to the domestic economies BUT it alone should not be held soley responsible since CORRUPTION, MISMANAGEMENT OF CAPITAL, AND POOR LEADERS SHOULD ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE that's my point period. I can get into the benefits of globilization and capitalism for those who benefits but I don't have the time plus we're living it. Furthermore, It can work for these economies but there have to be reforms in the way it's administered with the domestic economies at utmost importance but I'll not support inferior products, if you can't compete within reason then sorry.
peace!
I could answer this in length but I'm too tired at present. I'll just add that globalisation only works for its architects who in turn are the most vocal supporters of it and the most vocal people claiming its "success".
Globalisation as it is being pushed heavily does NOT accept reforms. It's a take it and we'll **** you up or don't and we'll **** you up in another way deal.
I have never attacked capitalism or more importantly the entrepeneural spirit it promotes, I just believe that the public should dictate where the country goe economically (i.e. democracy) and that certain things like public utilities, social welfare should be owned by the people.
The role of corporations should be curtailed and state intervention should always be a principle of a countries economic policy.
This is the ONLy way countries prosper. History will tell us. Globalisation as it is offered by the rich countries representatives is only making the already rich richer and the poor poorer.
This has nothing to do wih inferior products.
Someone said this when i was talking abiut the evil banan wars. in fact Caribbean bannas are BETTER than Latin American ones because they are usually grown naturally and don't have all these synthetic substances sprayed on them.
jamaican bauxite is not inferior, it is in fact of a high grade.
Some of you guys need to do some research on a lot of the mass produced market dominating products the "free" market tells us is superior, cheaper and good for us.
I'll give you a pointer. Start with a company called MONSANTO.
Chez, I've curtailed my curiosity for long enough. It's my birthday (well, was) and I'm, pissed, so I'll give-in to my whims. PLEASE e-mail me on: itsleemail@yahoo.co.uk
I would be extremely pleased to hear from you, I'll explain why in my e-mail reply!
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CHEZ:
You are a charismatic and articulate speaker, but you are sooo lost. You remind me of every Jamaican politician who ever existed, and like the Jamaican general public, the people on this site are hailing you as near genius.
Like every professor at UWI, you also have memorized every text book on economics ever written but don't have the slightest idea what they are saying.
You then quote the terminology but in your twisted way. You make sure that your grammar is correct to help legitimize you views. The simple minded reader, who did not know the real meaning of the terms you are using, see your grammatically correct (yet inacurrate) views, and the confidence in your writing and naturally thinks that it is correct.
But you are not fooling those of us who know better with your idealist poor man's politics.
of course he aint fooling those of U that know better.
Correction..have better. HL and BB nuh fi feel no way coz we in Jamaica have a lot of selfish people too. They have tasted a little "better than the rest vibe" and so they think they knw what is best for those that dont have and start preach. But in fact what they really are doing is keeping the poor, poor.Coz really what they want is more and more.
Intelligence dont always get U anywhere. The ones that have just need to be selfish and self centered enough and the have nots will forever have nothing.
So funny that chez is an idiot but he can use your own knowledge to prove the points of the poor but U rich people or better off's cant disprove it with nothing but denial.
Then U think why he commands so much respect.
Your business if U want to compare him to politicians. But its not coincidental the effect of deleting chez's posts. Look how much people have opposed the deletion of the posts of chez.Both those who agreed and disagreed with chez.People who didn't even used to post.Or even posted on the rich and poor topic. If U really check out Chez's post U will see that he is just a different version of the guy everyone loved to hate..Whats his name again.. The one that was arguing about white girls are more attractive than blacks.What him name again delano??? Chez even when U agree with him will correct U if U make one statement he does not agree with.
I dont think Pdart really thought out the implications of any moderator deleting those posts. Just imagine if all the moderators took Pdarts view. U would have Dart deleting Zouse,Chez and all post he think is stupid. DoubleD and Ddread can tell yu bout that. So then suppose I decided to delete coz me is a moderator.Do U think I would mek U post.I had disagreements with Cat,HL,BB,Delano and Jollyman. I have seen posts that I thought was basic crap.But I believe things can grow from **** too, so I give a man a chance. I could even delete nuff of Pdarts post,coz the truth B known nuff things he says is over the top and quick tempered and sometimes off the track.It is the futility of arrogance why some dont bother to tackle Pdart. He needs to check himself.
What he,Pdart is condoning can spiral well out of control. True Trini could get vex and delete everything anti american and anti trini.Jagga could delete a few too...
The administrators are lost too. They want all the hits on there site but want us to tone it down.They realise that the very essence of this site is what is so threatening to its success.
And if U really check the stance of the moderators... I am Just imagining what would happen if all the moderators took the view of Pdart. What would this site become if the ite's protested with there keyboard on and off switch.
I still think a code of practice is needed for the moderators.
The I fi cool Red Hills Man...Stop player hating... Both U and Dart have issues...
Nuff other people have issues... I know mine.
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They make the world so hard
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How am I hating? I'm telling the truth. Just because chez has most of the people on the site agreeing with him, doesn't mean he's right. Most people in JA voted for PJ, does that mean they're right--hell no. Have you ever heard the saying "the masses are asses."
That's why we elect legislators to vote in congress/parliament on our behalf, because most people think they are well informed-BUT AINT.
JT, I have a grudging respect for you, you say your thing, and with true belief, and you have the confidence to try and back-up your beliefs. You acknowledge the effort that Chez takes in his postings, (well, I do) - RHM is, as always, inaccurate in his views. (Can I be any more diplomatic!?!)
JT, I want to be honest with you. Our cultural background is very different, and you may be proud of this fact. So let's be more "local". If some one you know makes the effort to: practice football to the highest standard; play the piano professionally; teach history; discover a new planet..... (or whatever), will you be prepared to accept that they may deserve more wealth than you, due to their efforts/talents? I really want to know.
HL
[This message has been edited by Herb-luva (edited 10-06-2001).]
Yes HL... I do believe that if a man works and puts an effort into his works he should be rewarded.
Some of us dont get rewarded.Others get more than they need. I usually have a problem when some are deliberately hindered from getting theres.
I have not heard that saying Red Hills Man... It must be a Rich man thing..
I have heard in the democratic circles they practise majority rules. Right here we are not even practising that... We are just on similar grounds as opinion polls.
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They make the world so hard
RHM, Check out the true meaning of the expression "The masses are asses". You may find out that it was really directed at the Emperor and his 'new clothes'. Henry kissenger and Nixon also thought that a democratically elected Allende was put is office by the 'asses' of Chile....
The j'acam masses are not asses brethren. One man's ass is another's POISON DART-so to speak.
Like members of other democracies we really have no choice.
Perfect grammar is perfect grammar. It is not necessarily logical reasoning. The 'ites are intelligent enough to disagree or agree with Chez on the basis of his reasoning and politics, whether or not they appreciate his good grammar.
RHM you may be giving some people the impression that you are intimidated by Chez' good grammar. I'm am sure that it's not the case.
[This message has been edited by rasputin (edited 10-06-2001).]
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This is the problem with y'all. I compliments someone's communications skills, now all of a sudden i'm intimmidated. respect is due where it is due. BTW, communication is my area of specialization, i just don't care to go out of my way here, we are just some n*ggas talking.
Oh, "the masses are asses" is a popular term used in marketing, referring to people being sheep, following trends.
JT, even though you don't need me to reaffirm who you are, no matter whether I agree with you or not on particular posts, I have to respect your convictions. You have to respect a person who will stand up for what he truly believes in no matter what. I won't pile on this dart issue because I think you adequately addressed it. Further more, I am also sure that now that he has calmed down, he has realized the folly of his statements. I man personally admire Chez's style because the man not only know his facts but his presentation of it is very impressive. Most if not all of his points are backed up by published roports and research, the man clearly reads widely. Red Hills Man, you remind me of that little child in class who every minute says, "me,me teacher", and that just won't give the teacher a chance to teach. Stop interupt big man argument and go sit in the corner.
Red Hills man mi sorry fi-yo, but you stand firm; for you have not use filthy and degrading language to lash back at your detractors. keep the faith....
How about some Biblical economics in poor countries? listen to this: a popular preacher from the states went to Haiti to conduct a evangelistic meeting. As he came off the plane he was met by a number of preachers who immediately informed him that he's not to take an offering in his meetings because Haiti is a poor nation. He said to himself that he knows what he has to do.
He conducted the meeting and sure enough he took an offering. The Church leaders that were there did not do anything, because the preacher carefully explain to the people what giving was all about, and the people responded. To his surprise the offering amounts to about 15k. He took the money and invested it back into the needy people there.
On the other side of this; I have spoken to man and man who told me, teary-ide, that letter came to their poor grandmother in Jamaica from Oral Roberts asking for money. For this they would like to lick shot at him. This issue is one that is most abused and least understood for many in and outside of the Church. Before I do any explaining let me say this: Oral Roberts has been sending medical teams to Jamaica and to other Caribbean countries to assist the "poor" with free medical care. What this youth did not understanding is that he was confusing a man (Oral Rberts) who was operating the principle of Biblical economics, with some small minded charlaton preachers about the place. The Principle is, when the people of Jamaica give out of what they do not have they set themselves up to receive what they can't afford; it's called sowing and reaping. The Church live by this rule, and yes it has been abused, I've seen it for myself.
Do you all know that there is another side to world economies?
There is a reason why nearly all Black nations are poor? It's in your Bible!!
If the 'Ites dem demand to hear it I would have to start a new topic for it's a rather extensive dissertation.
Isn't it strange of all the nations of Africa that has more economic progress than the rest, this one country is controlled by Whites for the most part. Is this bad luck or what? It seems Black people in particular always come up short as far as economics is concerned. Is it something that we are not understanding or is it plain bad luck?
You are a charismatic and articulate speaker, but you are sooo lost.
I'm lost? Were you not the one proclaiming how the economic brilliance of your family to show how great one system is. I've shown you how I think you are wrong on the world scale by showing you how that said system (and its offshoots) is destroying the vast majority of people in the world. Under the face of that eveidence you stil think I'm lost re my viewpoint that capitaism as it stands now is not working.
I've shown you how one of the main architects of recent world global economics has "confessed" to the fact that it has no major proven basis behind it. (Check my posts about Stiglitz). Al you have done is come back with small localised events showing how the system works. You keep failing to recognise that I KNOW how it works, I just want it to work for EVERYONE.
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You remind me of every Jamaican politician who ever existed, and like the Jamaican general public, the people on this site are hailing you as near genius.
No they haven't. People have agreed and disagreed with me. I'm relatively new here and have posted some things that a few guys have said they couldn't put so eloguently. I thank them for that but I also have learnt a lot from their posts. I have even disagreed with points inside posts made by people who largely agree with me. Its called having a discussion.
If we met in person I would still be able to have these discussions with you though after a few drinks, I am not so sure it would be as eloquent!
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Like every professor at UWI, you also have memorized every text book on economics ever written but don't have the slightest idea what they are saying.
I have memorised nothing. I've read and learned and coupled that with my travels around the world. I've seen capitalism, liberalisaton and globalisation on the ground. Have you ever been to Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay)? There you will see the beauty of captalism as we know it at work.
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You then quote the terminology but in your twisted way. You make sure that your grammar is correct to help legitimize you views.
My twisted way? So to strive for better conditions for all is twisted? To see the gap between rich and poor shrink is twisted? Well then twisted as charged!!!
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The simple minded reader, who did not know the real meaning of the terms you are using, see your grammatically correct (yet inacurrate) views, and the confidence in your writing and naturally thinks that it is correct.
So who are the simple minded readers around here who agree with me? Name them please. If my views on how the current economic system are destroying the majority at the expense of the minority are wrong, present facts to the contrary. Don't try to slander my character to disprove my points.
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But you are not fooling those of us who know better with your idealist poor man's politics.
Those who know better. Like you? From your posts I wouldn't say you know better but that's just me.
But your coment fals under scrutiny because I AM NOT TRYING TO FOOL ANYONE
Originally posted by Red Hills Man: This is the problem with y'all. I compliments someone's communications skills, now all of a sudden i'm intimmidated. respect is due where it is due. BTW, communication is my area of specialization, i just don't care to go out of my way here, we are just some n*ggas talking.
Speak for yourself.
"My mama didn't raise no n*gga"
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Oh, "the masses are asses" is a popular term used in marketing, referring to people being sheep, following trends.
People are sheep, they do follow trends. One of the biggest is called globalisation and neoliberalism. As soon as someone attacks these concepts, you get a thousand people like you ready to jump down their throats. By your own mouth, ye shall be damned.
The gap between the rich and poor nations of the world is increasing.
Over the past ten years, the number of people earning $1 a day or less has remained static at 1.2 billion while the number earning less than $2 a day has increased from 2.55 billion to 2.8 billion people.
The gap in incomes between the 20% of the richest and the poorest countries has grown from 30 to 1 in 1960 to 82 to 1 in 1995.
By the late 1990s the fifth of the world’s people living in the highest-income countries had:
86% of world GDP—the bottom fifth just 1%. 82% of world export markets—the bottom fifth just 1%. 68% of foreign direct investment—the bottom fifth just 1%. 74% of world telephone lines, today’s basic means of communication—the bottom fifth just 1.5%.
The rising inequality is the inevitable result of "market forces". Given free reign( as they so ever increasingly are), market forces give the rich the power to add further to their wealth.
Hence, large corporations invest in poor countries only because they can make greater profits from low wage levels or because they can get access to their natural resources.
The "free" market does nothing to address re-distribution of wealth. It assumes that wealth will ‘trickle down’ to the poor.
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It is our job to glory in inequality(my emphasis) and see that talents and abilities are given vent and expression for the benefit of us all - Margaret Thatcher who promptly sold off every publicly owned asset to her cronies
