Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 4643
Loc: Inglewood CA
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No we have noticed Nandi slide in form and watch the HYPOCRITES skip slide and dance around the fact that the youth is losing form sitting down and not playing.
Who benefits when the selection criteria is bent for Nandi(the playing of competitive games week in and week out) and apply ridgidly for the Pearl? Nandi is loaded with tons of potential that needs to be nutured.
He MUST start back playing competitive ball again.
I would love to see a Dutch coach given a chance with our youth teams. Just to give us a different outlook on things.
respect
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Leggo the Pearl!!! do me a beg unnu just leggo the Pearl
Ahhh bowy...Ok Nbx Please enlighten me on what you consider to be ignorance and spesificaly what you are talking about when you say Dont know that you dont know ??....since you some how believe that some of dont know ... then tell us so we would know then!!!
OR maybe you cant either ??...its easy to sit on the sideline and coment on the game ... but going out there against fearce competition is a different thing ....
Now Wylly i like your arguments but i believe i already adressed this very issue in my previous post about which erra of Jamaican soccer i am talking about ... so i am not certain of what you are calling me out on .. but even so .. i might have an answer to what i believe you may be trying to say .the fact of the matter is this .... you have a good point when you said the players Mentalety is a key factor in their advancement ... If a player is not mentaly prepared before a game or a season .. i dont care how good he is he will not shine..
Attitude determins altitude....Most if not all Home grown Jamaican soccer players have grown up in a system which calls for them to have a almost bulish attitude and self loathing and selfishness...(product of their enviroment), International Soccer on the other hand calls for team work and selflesness... allot of our stars dont have those traits in them ... even if they had it growing up once they get to a certain level of soccer playing in Jamaica...say Major league the only way to survive is to become overly agressave and selfish because its every man for himself out there .. i know this because i played in that enviroment before ....its a cut throut world down there .. so its hard to change gears after you have grown up in that mode and are now hardned in those ways ... but with the youngsaters there is hope and thas what the Prof. saw and used when he first got there in 94...and now we have a somewhat above avrage pool of players to even choose from ....
But even so the youths still have allot to learn but we should not be trying to look for ways to exclude players .. instead we should be looking for ways to include all players with potential and even if they have allot of shortcomings .. we should look at that as a challenge to help them work through these problems ... because turning our backs on a player just because he have not done anything for you lately ...will eventualy cause you to turn you back on all the players at some point or another in the program ..because every player have bad drouts in their playing life time.....we should help players to work through these tough times in their carrears not dump them ... But the youths are the future becasue we can catch them from they are young and bend them to the correct way of thinking and the right attitude which will inturn elevate their altitude... peace... to all ... by the way where is Dart in all this comotion ????
Respect DDread and thank you for oversimplifying my arguments heh,heh. Alright mek wi reason now; I will restate my arguments that most goals at the club and international levels are scored from set plays with a large percentage of then being headers. Burton's being one footed is less of a handicap to a forward than the lack of ability to head the ball. For too long we have gone overboard to have popular players included in the team even though they might not be beneficial to the side. When Simoes tried to discipline Boyd the people blocked roads and carry on and some people on this forum are taking this thing to fanatical proportions. Walter Boyd played several games in the first round and did absolutely nothing. In fairness to him he had some injuries but based on his interest level and involvement in the game one can conclude that he was not comfortable in the system. The mid-field was also not doing well at the time and that could have made him suffer but he did not look dangerous at any time. Consider Shaggy's arguments that he has spent 2 or 3 years with Swansea and seemed to have regressed rather than progressed. Shaggy's point is key, if he was as good as advertised, certainly with his position so shaky with Swansea, he would have been pursued by other 2nd division teams or teams in the lower or higher divisions. I can live with the arguments that we should support Boyd because he is ours, a born and bred Jamaican, but don't try to make the argument that he is a better player than any of who is starting now. Comparing Burton and Boyd is nonsensecial(sp) because it is not about the ability to salad and pile people but rather the ability to fit into the team's framework. It is much the same way that we cry down the USA's lack of skill in their individual players while they go about acumulating 9 points but they play as a team and no player is bigger than the team. The TD talked with Boyd before the qualifers began and told him how important he was to the program, he even showed his loyalty by playing him in games even though he was clearly not producing. We must stop the hyprocracy, we are calling for Burton's head because he had two bad games but did'nt Boyd get his chance and not produce? I will say this again, we are looking to compete on the world's stage and that's way different than competing against CONCACAF opponents. We must select the best players that will put us in a position to win and not because they are popular or dem a ghetto youths. Pay attention to whey Dutchman sey that "Nandi has not scored against a big side yet". Anyway wi nah go noway wid this because evey man done believe whey dem believe on this issue and no minds ah go change.
Remember, you're the one who extolled the virtues of Boyd's scrimmage ball. lol :-) An amazing, piece ignorance! lol That's when you convinced me that you, like many Jamaicans, have had little exposure to top flight football. Thus, we can't discuss football. We have different standards as to what consitutes good play.
And as wylly may have alluded, there seems to be too many naive fans. But I'm hopeful. Over time our people will develop a better understanding of football, and that better understanding should happen as the reggae boyz improve.
Finally, apart from naive fans, there is another issue that clouds the debate. As I have said before, the present support for boyd may have less to do with football, and more to do with social class: "Gi de ghetto yute a chance. Him a get a fight." I'm sure we have heard those comments, time, and time and time, again.
I think our TD is a smart man. He knows the state of Jamaican football, and he certainly knows some of our social issues.
Yow Wylly.. fi real I wanted to touch this subject but I have just not been in the mood.. I have been watching the Jamaican games wid mi new video. It can show videos in both the Pal and NTSC systems... Yo JahB.. Thanks again for them videos brethren... Anybody have the Mexico and the Bulgaria game?????
What a post...Maybe me not hogging the forum allow some man fi run wid it... Gwaan... It would be nice for some more man fi put some constructive views..
For me the bottomline is that we have to work with what we have. Including the Lowes and Boyds. We have to encourage our locals to step up, bcoz none of them are the finished product but we also need to know when praise becomes worship. I have seen Boyd on TV in England and he does seem more proficient than I have seen him playing for Jamaica. But then its a unanimous decision when a player isn't performing outside the UK that he needs a rest.Jamaica seems to have other habits. But lets not forget the outside influence that has stopped individuals from participating also.
But anyway.. Things to do...
I will though attempt to answer mi brethren shaggy.QUESTION:My position is that we certainly have skilled players in Jamaica, but something prevents some of them from reaching certain heights, outside of race, what is it? Can someone tell me.
My ANSWER: Lack of vision.
If only the players could hear Nars african teacher...Practical gives skill but we need theory to sometimes clarify and give a better understanding. Big up NBX..Nuff tactical talk and you are right there but putting down Boyd not helping. It's not all his admirers that are sentimental. Maybe U should try and convince Ddread with logic. And maybe U should try and understand that anything Jamaicans do,their attitude is incorporated.Regardless of what U may think. U remind me of myself driving my car. Me know and do everything right.The other cats on the road think they know,but dont know they dont. Chill out star.raise Jah that you have the ability to have a better understanding of football.But its your same attitude that stops some people from accepting new attitudes.And if you really think certain man on this forum are football dunces I cant see what U will be achieving by telling them to forget their god. The man that gave them hope. The messiah that started the dream.And then you ask man fi figet widout supplying likkle logic and reasoning why they should forget a man that is held in high esteem..And even man that cuss me for daring to speak against the JFF are joining this waggon about Boyd. We are all big men here NBX. U lost the argument when yu start talk down to certain 'ites rather than continue your line of flow.Though I can understand and have sometimes spoke about the attitude change, destroying a culture and one's identity in the process is not an option..So guys dont take what Rudi is saying lightly.The black english will always fit into our system bcoz they are a lost people and want to belong.The Jamaicans however will find it different as other foreigners do, to fit into the English style. And the English dont change their style of football.Though they are learning to play the ground ball. Gardener is great but dont forget one major reason why he was recruited first was the factor of his age.He can be trained and was. The others. Well some are too old fi change and others need special needs..Some need counselling too. So big up all the man dem who have made some good points on this topic...
I have watched the game shaggy.. I wish I hadn't... It was better being a radio commentator.. Though I castrated Burton. It's with great sadness that I have to admit that he is the best we have as a striker. But I know from time that he cant score and most of the times he does half are flukes.. But if we had players who understand and can anticipate his moves then he may create chances for others.. Play him with Hayles.. We never saw much of him and new boy but I wonder..I think that triangle of Hayles, Burton and Hyde working with the triangle of Lawrence,Whitmore and Lowe supported by Gardener and Marshall should put two goals pass USA as well as contain them.Second half I would bring on Williams for either Lowe or Whitmore or even Burton. Boyd needs to be kept Hungry.(That means dont exclude him.)But we have to stop the sentimental thing. Bruk and shift and exhibition ball after we score three goal... B4 that concentration on getting a result.
[This message has been edited by jt (edited 05-08-2001).]
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They make the world so hard
I understand your comment. Still, my purpose is not to win over boyd fans by repeating the obvious. That's a waste of time. You are asking me to appeal to intellect when others are speaking from the heart - futility bredrin! lol :-)
Still, your reference to "God" and "Messiah" reminded of a song we all know:
Who say in their heart: Rasta yu god is dead! Jah lives, children, yeah aahh. Rasta live, children yeah. RNM. lol :-)
Blow wow, Jt a give some credit to Burton, STOP THE PRESSES!!!! That's one of the things I respect about you JT, you will speak the way that you feel no matter what and I respect the way that you have admitted your error. I am a true blue Jamaican and football is my passion. I have been involved in this game at every level except professional and so when I speak it is based on that experience. I said all that to say that when I evaluate the forwards it is with no malice but rather it is based on performance and charateristics, how they would fit into the team. I will say it one last time, despite where he was born, Burton is our most technically sound forward and if he gets out of his slump combined with the improved play he will work wonders.
But through your fu@king mix up and through your false pride you let them take Jah Jah children for a ride shut up! open the gates and let [Boyd] through -BoB Marley
Easy JahB, you would be making a case if on our team we had set plays that were directed at Boyd's head and he failed to deliver. From what I see we hardly have any set plays at all.
Quote:
JahB wrote: When Simoes tried to discipline Boyd the people blocked roads and carry on and some people on this forum are taking this thing to fanatical proportions.
...and many of us are still holding this against Boyd. It is not Boyd's fault that I blocked a road or 2 to protest the follies of a few. Blame me, not Boyd.
Quote:
Shaggy's point is key, if he was as good as advertised, certainly with his position so shaky with Swansea, he would have been pursued by other 2nd division teams or teams in the lower or higher divisions.
Herein lies the fallacy. You cannot conclude that because Boyd is not persued by other 2nd division teams or teams in the lower or higher divisions then he is not good enough to play for Jamaica. If that agument was valid then the goalie (all of them) the defence line Tappa, Hell, the whole damn team except Burton would not be good enough... Oh I just got it, that's why Burton can do no wrong; he plays EPL so be must be good.Heheheheh. Respect JahB, and I mean it in the true sense of the word. I have not seen most of the games and please don't hold it against me if Earl Baily lead me astray. Burton and Lowe played all the games in the first round(Lowe missed one). Boyd played for a total of less than 30 minutes. Burton had 3 bad years not 2 games but we are not discussing Burton. Nandi has not scored aniast a good side yet??? only if the defintion of a good side is "the teams Lowe have not scored on yet". truetrini would argue that T&T is a "good side". Most of CONCACAF thought that Honduras was the best team in this Hexagonal. Mexico? ask the deffender that was shaken up, clearly beaten, with only a tap in left before the goal and Lowe was FOULED. Damn, you made me relive the penalty. Hehehehe.
Jah love jahB. Maybe mi and you can sit down a chat and leave the mix-up mix-up. We are clearly from different schools of thought on this matter but no love or respect lost.
Respect DDread, that's the joy in this whole thing, the fact that we can disagree but still maintain the level of respect that we've had for each other. I man would not be against Boyd getting a recall to prove his worth because Jah know sey if him can help wi qualify, I am all fi that. One last thing, giving him a chance and the others also, in the Copa Caribe, would help us to access their form and place on the national team and would end this "Boyd argument" once and for all.
Jah guide Peace
[This message has been edited by Jah B (edited 05-09-2001).]
