Any country the terrorists would have been in, the response would have been the same: Hand over the terrorists or else. What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now is the "or else".
I think the USA would have taken a bit longer to attack China if the terrorists were based there, but that would have been a totally different scenario. For one, the terrorists wouldn't have been Islamic Fundamentalists. If China itself had done an attack like that, it would have been the USA and Britan vs China, I can't predict where the rest of the world would have come in. It definately would have been WW3. However, there is no reason for China to do something like that. China is a rational secular country looking out for #1. bin Laden is a religious fanatic convinced that God is on his side. You can't really compare the two of them.
As for war between China and the USA...it wouldn't be pretty, but the USA has more long-range weapons. China has more people, but how is the infrastructure? I would predict a pryrhic victory for the USA.
Originally posted by Red Hills Man: ddread, allow me to educate you on the US judicial system 1. Prosecutors get evidence to convince them that they can put a suspect away in court.
2. Police/army go after the suspect and arrest him. If while arresting him suspects puts up violent risistance, police response with deadly force.
3. if suspect is captured, he's then brought to trial. THAT IS WHERE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE WILL BE PRESENTED. In order to convict the suspect.
The US has no need to really give evidence to anyone except the jury.
Pakistan was one of only two allies of the Taliban. Are you trying to tell me that after all those years of world preasure to break allegiance with the taliban, they just did it all of a sudden, now, without evidence. Come on Man, talk with a little sense, please.
RedHillsMan you have been taking a beating on this site for quite some times now and you keep hanging in. You really have staying power. But when you drop lyrics like this I have to see why zouse and chez say "you are the weakest link, goodbye". When it comes to extradition of suspected criminals between two states it does not matter what the local laws of either state is just the extradition treaty, if any.
For example if some foxy chick breaks Taliban laws by "streaking" downtown Khabull(sp) in nothing but a G string all she had to do was to get on a plane and make it New York and she would be safe. The Taliban can not go asking for her even if they have a video of her "crime". Here we have a situation of the US suspecting that BinLaden was involved and "demanded that he be turned over" without any evedence.
Cuba tells of a case where one of Florida's many Cuban terrorists blew up a Cuban jetliner killing quite a number of Cubans. Castro provided evedence to the state department trying to negotiate extradtion of the criminal and was denied. The "terrorist" still lives in south florida.
RedHillsMan, you, MikeU, Truetirni apparently Geoff and the rest of the "might is right crew" needs to check yourselves. You need to understand what civilization is and your responsibility in defending it. Cruise missile deplomacy is not the answer.
[This message has been edited by ddread (edited 10-28-2001).]
RED HILLS MAN you pea brain you are a total dummy, guys like you cant see the forest for the trees..
This is above me because i am telling the truth? because i am not buying into the USA rhetoric? because that is what it is ...
Per bush these guys are evil doers because of what they did to us, but while they were killing the Russians they were FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!
The USA want to have it's cake and eat too, guess what!!! RHM it aint gonna happen this time..
RHM to show how stupid you are the USA kicked IRAQ out of Kuwait they did not go all the way into IRAQ to overthrow SADDAM that would be a totally different war so get your facts straight you idiot!!!!
RHM have you been watching the networks of lately especially FOX they are the worst, we have been bombing for almost 4 wks now what have we accomplished?? i'll tell you!! we have created more AFGHAN refugees and killed innocent people with our so called smart bomb..
We have not hurt the TALIBAN at all again i say to you RHM you twirp, do you think BIN LADEN did'nt expect this!! proof that the TALIBANS are still in control was revealed yesterday when they used intelligence to capture and hang that former AFGHAN rebel turned spy for the USA..
Look i am not a fan of the TALIBAN but i would like to see the playing field a little more even and with all the fire power the USA as i think once they go in on the ground and stay there it will be a different ball game.
RHM you speak utter rubbish i really expected better from you but then again you always surprise me every now again...
US bombs hit three houses on the outskirts of Kabul on Sunday, killing at least 10 civilians and virtually wiping out an entire family, witnesses said. The error came a day after US attacks near the front line between the Taleban and the opposition Northern Alliance apparently landed on the wrong side.
The whole world is responsible for this tragedy. Why are they not taking any decision to stop this
Grieving mother It remained unclear how many people were injured in those attacks, which followed complaints from the Northern Alliance that the US was not doing enough to help its fighters advance against the Taleban.
The BBC's Mike Wooldridge says the mistakes again raise the question of targeting at a time of increasing pressure on the US-led coalition about mounting civilian deaths.
Breakfast
In the Kabul strike, victims included eight members of a family who were eating breakfast, Reuters news agency reported.
"What shall I do now? Look at their savageness. They killed all of my children and husband," said the mother of the family.
Relatives dig graves
The bomb hit a residential area of Kabul, near a hill on which there is an anti-aircraft gun.
Washington has so far said nothing about the apparent mistakes.
The BBC's Jonathan Charles says US aircraft also attacked Taleban lines near Tajikistan on Sunday for the first time.
The Taleban and Northern Alliance have faced each other across the front line there for more than a year with neither side gaining ground.
Click here for map of reported air strikes
Earlier on Sunday, the funeral of executed opposition leader Abdul Haq took place in the family ancestral home near Jalalabad, according to his brother.
Haq was executed by the Taleban after they caught him trying to cross into Afghanistan from Pakistan.
In other developments:
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw says possibility of suspending bombing during Ramadan is "being considered" UN High Commissioner for Refugees Ruud Lubbers renews appeal for Pakistan to open borders to refugees Pakistani border guards halt a convoy of thousands of armed Pakistani tribesmen who want to help the Taleban fight back against the US The funeral is held in Washington for the latest victim of anthrax Demonstration in New York City against military action meets mixed reactions from New Yorkers Villages hit
Sunday marked the beginning of the fourth week of US bombing, after Saturday saw the heaviest attacks of the air offensive so far.
Again civilians were caught in the fighting.
Apparently inadvertent US strikes on villages on either side of the front line left at least 10 people missing feared dead.
US raids are entering their fourth week
Kate Rowlands, in charge of an Italian-run hospital near the scene of the attacks, said villagers under Northern Alliance control had told her of at least four people killed.
In one of the villages, Ghanikheil, one woman was reported to have been killed and 10 injured.
A BBC correspondent in Afghanistan says that, like most front-line areas, this one was populated, but only by the poorest and most desperate people.
Airport battle
In Saturday's onslaught, US jets targeted Taleban positions on a hill overlooking Bagram airport, a crucial Northern Alliance position.
The alliance holds the airport, but cannot use it because it is vulnerable to Taleban fire. Unhindered control of it could make a significant difference to resupplying their forward troops, particularly as winter closes in.
The Afghan Islamic Press news agency reported that US warplanes had also attacked the strategic northern town of Mazar-e-Sharif.
The town is a key objective of the Northern Alliance, which has said the Taleban could have been hit 10 times harder if the US coordinated its attacks with opposition fighters.
_________________________
Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
Civilian deaths are inevitable in war. If anybody who felt that not one civilian would die in Afghanistan, they had absolutely no idea what a war is and its history.
The problem is, when these civilians start to die in large scales, we will start to hear it from the “peacekeepers”.
Ok Mike "neutral" U. I thought the difference between the "terrorist" and military was that "terrorist" kill civilians? Like the article said, "every civilians that dies in Afghanistan should be added to the total number of innocent people killed by terror."
Quote:
I am not saying "might is right." I am saying the USA is justified in their actions at this point in time. And I still don't hear an alternative to the current actions being taken.
What part are you particularly fond of? the cruise missile diplomacy? What was the rush to bomb Afghanistan? A show of force? I think if they gave the evedence that they said was fortcoming that implicated binLaden, offered it to the Taliban then go in to get BinLaden and the Taliban offered resistance then you would have no questions from me. It would be justified then. Is that a suitable alternative?
What we have here are a few trigger happy jingos flexing and you guys jumping on board.
[This message has been edited by ddread (edited 10-28-2001).]
Red Hills Man... I think only a change of name will change your perspective...
How about Blue Valley Bwoy.
We have to make one thread just for U. Possibly a forum. U just remind me of a little Seaga.
U remember this song...
Nobody loves me...I am nobodys child...just like a flower...I'm growing wild....
just asking if u remember it...a nuh nothen...
Blue Valley Bwoy...Please do me a favor.
The editorial I posted at the beginning... Could U please decipher it paragraph by paragraph as U have been doing with everyone's post with quote by quote. Please RHM please. The whole thing. Please. Geoff.... Just let me think a little.. I'll Be Back...
Gwaan Ddread.. I see yu take the batton from chez....heh heh...kill dem my yute... I nearly got myself the first red card as I was so excited about your post I couldn't hold back the expletives..
I hear yu JahB... But mi cant give in...No way... There are in-active ites on this site who rely on the truth to be told...
as Merciless say... even if its a common pin...LET THEM HAVE IT........
_________________________
They make the world so hard
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 234
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ddread, if you are gonna rebut my points against you. Don't pick out one and two and think that you have accomplished something, rebut them all if you think you can.
Quote:
RedHillsMan you have been taking a beating on this site for quite some times now and you keep hanging in. You really have staying power.
I've been taking a beating? This from a person who thinks the afgans can beat the US. What a joke!
Quote:
But when you drop lyrics like this I have to see why zouse and chez say "you are the weakest link, goodbye".
Look who you are reffering to. Atleast chez can hide his stupidity behind other peoples' opinion in an attempt to fool the likes of you and our great moderatoer, JT. But you, you are just 100% knowledge lacking.
Quote:
When it comes to extradition of suspected criminals between two states it does not matter what the local laws of either state is just the extradition treaty, if any.
First of all, genius, treaties only work between countries that are recognized to be soveriegn states by the rest of the world or atleast the country in question. And in case you did not know, no country in the world, except 2, recognized the taliban as a real government. So treaties don't count here. Boy, you sure are common sense lacking.
Quote:
Cuba tells of a case where one of Florida's many Cuban terrorists blew up a Cuban jetliner killing quite a number of Cubans. Castro provided evedence to the state department trying to negotiate extradtion of the criminal and was denied. The "terrorist" still lives in south florida.
Hmmm, what about when castro accused Elian Gonzalez's Miami family of kidnapping him and demanded his return to Cuba. The US sent in federal commando type agents to retrieve the boy and sent him home to Cuba. Castro was greatful.
Wait a second. Aren't Cuba and the US bitter enemies? They sure are. I guess the US must have had an ulterior motive when they did that huh, dumbass.
You also keep talking about presenting evidence, even after i point by point, showed how the judicial process works. Present evidence to whom, YOU. I already told you that some evidence must have been shown to atleast pakistan to make them turn on their ally (taliban) so quickly. Wake up man.
Maybe that's your problem. You might be watching a little too much Weakest Link rather than trying to learn something.
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 234
Loc: Miami, FL USA
Offline
Quote:
RED HILLS MAN you pea brain you are a total dummy, guys like you cant see the forest for the trees..
O oh. Another guy who quotes over used sayings. I guess you think you're some type of genius as well, huh.
Quote:
This is above me because i am telling the truth? because i am not buying into the USA rhetoric? because that is what it is ...
Per bush these guys are evil doers because of what they did to us, but while they were killing the Russians they were FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!
The USA want to have it's cake and eat too, guess what!!! RHM it aint gonna happen this time..
look at that quote. Nothing concrete. Nothing of substance, nothing worth answering.
"The US wants to have its cake and eat it too." Damn, it must have taken you all night to think of that one. You are just so smart. I can't wait to hear what else you come up with. IDIOT.
Quote:
RHM to show how stupid you are the USA kicked IRAQ out of Kuwait they did not go all the way into IRAQ to overthrow SADDAM that would be a totally different war so get your facts straight you idiot!!!!
Ha ha ha ha, if you are gonna discuss me, know what the hell you are saying. PLease please please tell me when the hell i ever said that the US overthrew Saddam. And by the way, they did go into Irag, they just did not go into Baghdad, as Swartzkof wanted. Dorkmiester.
Quote:
RHM have you been watching the networks of lately especially FOX they are the worst, we have been bombing for almost 4 wks now what have we accomplished?? i'll tell you!! we have created more AFGHAN refugees and killed innocent people with our so called smart bomb..
Well, in case you didn't know, the US told the country to expect a LONG and SUSATIANED attack. And the latest reports from Washington indicate that everything is on schedule. And another thing. Do you remember Kosovo. If not, do some research so that you will stop making yourself look like an ass. just when the critics were saying that the airstrikes in Kosovo weren't working, RESOLUTION. Without a single foot soldier.
Quote:
We have not hurt the TALIBAN at all
"WE?", Which we are you talking about, the members of the forum? Because you are clearly not on the US' side in this war.
Quote:
proof that the TALIBANS are still in control was revealed yesterday when they used intelligence to capture and hang that former AFGHAN rebel turned spy for the USA..[
Who the hell ever said that the taliban was not in control.. Everyone knows that the Taliban is in control. The goal here (long term goal) is to get them, eventually, out of control. ASS.
Quote:
Look i am not a fan of the TALIBAN but i would like to see the playing field a little more even
Is this idiot talking about a war or a soccer match?
To put it in soccer terms for you, Carl Brown, if Jamaica is playing a team with more talent than them, Jamaica should tell the opponents not to train as hard and not to bring their best players, so that it will be a little more even, huh.
#4486 - 10/28/0105:32 PMRe: a great read:even for the yankee lovers
AnonymousAnonymous
Unregistered
Geoff said:
Quote:
I am not saying "might is right." I am saying the USA is justified in their actions at this point in time. And I still don't hear an alternative to the current actions being taken.
Geoff, my alternative would be to discuss a political solution to the crisis with our arch-enemies. Killing is never going to be a long-term solution, it will merely foster hatred in the lives of the people who suffer - the Afghan civilians in particular. The US might be motivating future terrorists with it's present course of action.
DDread alluded to Orwell's 1984 earlier in the thread, and the constant warfare described in this book will become a reality for the US and it's allies unless they embark on a more peaceful approach to reconciling their differences with their enemies.
Ddread said:
Quote:
I thought the difference between the "terrorist" and military was that "terrorist" kill civilians?
I think intention plays a major part in defining them. Terrorists target civilians, e.g. WTC attacks, whereas the military targets the opposing military. Mistakes will be made, and innocent people are likely to suffer, but that is not the intention.
RHM said:
Quote:
Chez, where are you? Let me finish you off too.
Chez doesn't usually post at the weekends because he's busy. In any case, I think he's likely to ignore you, unless the temptation of shooting you down AGAIN becomes too great.
I am not saying "might is right." I am saying the USA is justified in their actions at this point in time. And I still don't hear an alternative to the current actions being taken.
What part are you particularly fond of? the cruise missile diplomacy? What was the rush to bomb Afghanistan? A show of force? I think if they gave the evedence that they said was fortcoming that implicated binLaden, offered it to the Taliban then go in to get BinLaden and the Taliban offered resistance then you would have no questions from me. It would be justified then. Is that a suitable alternative?
What we have here are a few trigger happy jingos flexing and you guys jumping on board.
[This message has been edited by ddread (edited 10-28-2001).][/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't say I was fond of anything.
Consider that the Taliban is closely linked to bin Laden. It wasn't as though they are a government with control over someone. They are working hand in hand with bin Laden. He is giving them money. For all the USA knew, the Taliban could have helped set it up. The knew for sure that the Taliban was supporting bin Laden and vice versa. So why should they be compelled to show them that evidence? The fact that Pakistan, their one ally, called the evidence conclusive should have shown them what's what. They are not even the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan, and I think THAT is the key reason why the USA didn't show them the evidence.
And at any rate, what reason is there to believe that the Taliban would have honoured their statement? They have been lying through their teeth from the get-go.
BVB, a mean RHM easy. You clearly don't have a clue. I think I know what those pilot meant when they said that "Afghanistan is not a target rich counrty." That is how I feel sparring with you, a no win situation fi real. I remember how sorry I felt for you when Chez mash you down. But you try myYouth. Is a good thing yuh people have money. Yuh can't hold a argument to save yuh life.
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 234
Loc: Miami, FL USA
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First of all ddread. I did not expect most of you on this site to see things my way. I pride myself in being among the 20% with the 80% of the knowledge, so naturally most of you can't even understand what i'm saying much less decide whether you agree with it or not.
Chez, mashing me down? Don't make me laugh. You people are like the hippies of the 60's, who put peace, love, humanity, and mankind first. Then when reality lick, they all ended up joining the corporate world. You are all just taking the Freedom that the US granted you all for granted (yes, even those of you who live in JA on US hand-outs)
And another thing ddread (typical Jamaican, trying to be American but doesn't understand what being american means)you've posted BVB twice, don't you mean BBD (BelBivDevoe).Sillygoose.
Anyway, medone kill you already. Send somebody else now.
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 234
Loc: Miami, FL USA
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Binza, after how i broke your post apart, this is all you can say. Well i don't blame you for not even trying, afterall, i did knock down every one of your content lacking points. As i said in the begginging, you weren't in my league anyway.
#4492 - 10/28/0108:12 PMRe: a great read:even for the yankee lovers
AnonymousAnonymous
Unregistered
I hate egomaniacs! RHM, come down off your perch and join the rest of us mere mortals in the realm of reality. Why can't you just join in the discussion without the insults? You don't have to try and prove anything, and using this forum for your kicks is annoying the hell out of the majority. If you care about others as much as you care about yourself, get with the programme. Debate = good, insults = bad. Get it?
