The Jamaican football team and organization is not sustainable without its grass roots movement in Jamaica of maintaining a viable and vibrant “professional” league, where aspiring talents can look forward, not only to make the senior team but have contracts on foreign clubs. I don’t think anyone on the R’Boyz site is arguing against this very fact.
What we are basically arguing against is the JFF incessant miscalculations as to the value of UK ballers in terms of improving our team as well as what an improve team would mean -for example, the bottom line -revenues.
Back in the heydays of the now defunct NASL (North American Soccer League) the success of that league was largely hinge on the acquiring of older overseas marque players and super stars such as “PELE’ & “BECKENBAUER.” Nevertheless that league was not maintainable because of the lack of a supporting cast of young American talent to shore up the pool of players. They admitted the need of a grass roots movement of soccer families (soccer moms), little leagues, under age leagues, College etc.
It was at the behest of this movement where the need for a senior league was developed, hence the current successful MLS.
Nevertheless within the scope of the successes of the MLS is the ongoing understanding for the continuous need of marque football professionals and stars from abroad. They have elected to merge the two as oppose to pitting one against the other; realizing the need of foreign nationals as a viable antecedent to the success of US soccer, past & present.
When one looks at world football today in general and the changes that has taken place among the top six leagues in the world: EPL, LA LIGA, BUNDESLIGA, PORTUGUESE LEAGUE, IRIEDIVISIE, BELGIUM, etc., in no uncertain terms there has being a definite move of club teams to have the very best players in the world on their squads if its affordable. To the extent that some major club teams are fielding starting squads made up almost entirely of international players, and the voices that are decrying these moves are low. Winning, it seems outweighs patriotism on the club level.
I’m for patriotism but not at the expense of a watered down league with non-talented players. But I would hasten to say that I’m in favor of some kind of quota system in place in these leagues to stem the tide.
If the case was that our local base was as capable as the UK professionals to lead us forward then we would have had a higher profile, a higher ranking, and an attractive and respected team in the spotlight. Then we would not need to spend as much energy to acquire foreign player; that's not the case so we have to exert the energy in this case.
Jamaica football definitely is at a cross road of sorts, caught between two worlds, the old and the new.
The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems. But unconscionable they seem to have left out our UK brothers expertise and know how out of the equation. Now we are definitely feeling the impact of what such exclusion has wrought.
The impact is, that at this stage of our development we are still not able to compete with or even beat on a consistent basis the USA or MEX, with all the talented and professional players available to us in the UK. That’s why I say there need to be an intended focus on a UK project.
A project that will not only address the need for inviting more players, but a project that would take into consideration the difficulties and obstacles that UK players face when trying to assimilating smoothly into the squad and culture of Jamaica.
The JFF I believe should have a liaison in Britain in some capacity to deal with player’s transition into the R’Boyz squad, dealing with the paper work, along with other social issues. This level of professionalism I believe is really needed so as to present a new face on Jamaica’s football and the JFF serious approach to the professionals in England. As well as to communicate to the UK ballas its intent on having a long term relationship with the UK ballas, to significantly improve our team to be a ConCaCaf title contender.
This statement came out of the JFF offices this week :
[i]"Therefore, we have no reservations on England-born or other European-born players of Jamaican descent representing the country, providing that the talent is better than what exist here in Jamaica and can fit into the unit without creating instability and disharmony... and can enhance the capacity of the team and program," said JFF general secretary, Horace Reid.”[/i]
We do appreciate whatever it is the JFF is doing toward bringing in the UK contingency. However we believe because the UK contingency is so important to our next phase of football development there needs to be a more personal touch than just a phone call from TAPPA. There needs to be a foothold in England. A foothold requires groundwork of sorts etc.
There needs to be something more substantial than that; more convincing, that we have turned the page; and this can come in the form of a football liaison.
In addition I do see this strategy as something other Caribbean nation should adopt in going after their “Windrush generation” of footballers.
.....but a comprehensive plan would be to bring a nucleus over from this side to train with new UK invitees in England on a FIFA match day week.
This may not happen because friendlies in England in the past weren't well attended so money was lost. The JFF need to see any kind of plan such as what we are advocating as an investment similar to the investment of $16 million for the U17 going to brazil for 6 weeks; the seniors deserves this.
It would be easier and practical that if the JFF wanted to see a host of players from the UK that they would eliminate the long distance travel they would have to do, and hold tryouts there.
Therefore with all their might the JFF need to be working on a plan to build relationship with an organization in England much like what they have in Traffic sports in Brazil.
JFF Shortsightedness again; England is where our players are, not Brazil. having a relationship in England will ease operating cost and help the JFF assimilate to the culture of the UK players that would certainly help them in their dealings with UK'ites.
Again I can't stress enough how valuable JOHN BARNES & BLISSET would be to our advantage in helping us forge relationships in England.
We need forward thinking form our hierarchy; it is a weak position and weak managing disposition to conclude we can't go to England because there's no money. To me Brazil is just as far away, but they find a way to reduce cost and that was done out of relationships established there. The link was SEMOES a former coach; well, JOHN BARNES is a former coach.
I think no matter how big a person (BURRELL)is they have to be willing to admit that mistakes in decisions were made with rspect to the UK question. Obvious obstacles were/are present, and no doubt they had succumb. In other words the JFF gave up the idea of finding an answer for the UK obstacles, and gave up trying to have a viable exchange with an organization in England.
We hope that ideas like these will somehow reach dem; England is a must. Brazil was a must as far as a football system goes. We need to make England project in of itself.
We would have done have a foothold in England if after the '98 campaign if this approach was taken.
We had failed to attract a whole generation of potential UK ballers back then. Now there's a new generation afoot, we the fans shouldn't allow this to happen again without raising cane in the offices of the JFF.
If development 'might' hinder a winning atmosphere then forget development, because it will cost you fans support. If concern over long-term finance hinders having the best players on the field, forget long-term finance because if the team go on a losing streak they won't have any fans in the long-term anyway.?
Development; are you referring to the Local league in of itself or local ballas being groomed/developed on the national team?
Development in terms of rebuilding the team when the regulars are retiring or approaching retirement from international competition.
Pele, I'll respond the best way I think you're getting at; I think with careful planning by TAPPA and coaching staff, and picking UK players that fit our scheme of things, there shouldn't be much of a drop off in form when we lose players to old age; that it would intefere with new players transition to the point of us falling significantly in the rankings.
Thank God we are in good shape now, the present nucleus are not that old that they can't play in one more WC if we qualify...
Cummings 29 Dane 28 (Dec.) Jason 27 Phillips 28 Omar 30 Watson 28 Keamar 23 Austin 26 () Taylor 26 shavar 30 Bibi 33 Fuller 32
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
If concern over long-term finance hinders having the best players on the field, forget long-term finance because if the team go on a losing streak they won't have any fans in the long-term anyway.
Long-term financing to me is a financial roadmap/budget to sustain the programme for a cycle, which I see as a 4 year period. Most people are only concern with the next game, but should the JFF operate under that mentality?
Good question PeLe; the JFF really have to find a way to overcome this if money becomes an issue to having a number of UK ballas here.
They found a way in starting off spending, I think 6 million for U17 going to Brazil. Then they scratch and crawl for 10 milliom more to extend their stay. They made a way.
They have to sell their product to potential corporate sponsors that the necessary inclusion of UK ballas is tantamount to our present and future success. That they the sponsorers would benefit substantially if the Team began to hit strides and compete for a top spot in ConCaCaf hierarchy and attract a wider fan base outside of Jamaicans like our track & field product.
Therefore it pays if these sponsorers come on board let off the cash whereby we can without obstacles pursue the best available soccer players in the UK. Idealy we need to have an office in the UK, for scouting, to connect players help inease with paper work.
The JFF have to revolutionize their thinking and see the UK ballas as a mine, with potential diamonds which can handsomely pay off for everyone, and Jamaica football. Where Jamaica football sit on top of ConCaCaf with USA and MEX underneath looking up with admiration, and thinking: "how in God's name they did it without a full professional league."
The JFF truly have to stop seeing the UK as just another place where we find a "few more pieces to the puzzle."
I think this situation is tantamount to what has taken place in reggae music, where the production, promotion, the making of Reggae music in England rivals that of Jamaica. Jamaica is only ahead because that's where the artist dem born and grow and nutured and maybe more seasoned musician deh a yard.
Howevr in the case of soccer we can safely say that overall the UK ballas are better than most of what we would consider the best in our nucleus. Therefore with a situation as this there has to be a different mindset of how we are to impliment the UK product.
If diamond is for the taking why try and chip off a piece when the whole rock can be had.
"The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems."
If a laugh i may pop, what crock what tremendous energy? -flying to brazil to find coaches to give them multi-million $ contracts? and then turn around an give a local coach without much experience 'a try' fi two 2 festival -or enriching brazil football camps with vacation tours -and where is the call for Project Jamaica mad scientists unuh licky licky and wanga gut instant success mek unuh belly rule unuh why bother wid a 12 year plan when u can google a team pon u ipad
Every 4 years our fanatics head tek them as every 4 years they sense the dream of flying to a world cup to wave a jamaican flag for 3 games again seems elusive
Stop the farin mindedness set in place by the me first politricksters always a borrower and Build a Football industry not a World cup qualifying ponzi scheme selling the Same Lotto Tickets every 4 years
the more u guys sweat every WCQ, is the more the JFF syndicate get fatter round the waist and the neck
hehheh
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
If concern over long-term finance hinders having the best players on the field, forget long-term finance because if the team go on a losing streak they won't have any fans in the long-term anyway.
Long-term financing to me is a financial roadmap/budget to sustain the programme for a cycle, which I see as a 4 year period. Most people are only concern with the next game, but should the JFF operate under that mentality?
Good question PeLe; the JFF really have to find a way to overcome this if money becomes an issue to having a number of UK ballas here.
They found a way in starting off spending, I think 6 million for U17 going to Brazil. Then they scratch and crawl for 10 milliom more to extend their stay. They made a way.
[list] [*]null
At the time I did say that this 'investment', still trying to figure out how it qualifies as 'investment', was going to come back to haunt the JFF when it is time for the seniors. I was told 'investing' in the yutes could never be wrong even if only one of them go on to sign a deal. That seemed reasonable at the time and many people saw it that way.
You guys are like the tea party in USA politics. Unnu argument is not practical, because it is not sustainable. It is mre akin to a ponzi scheme like G stated, but it sounds reasonable to many because of the situation and blunders the JFF created and the lies unnu tell unnuself to make it seems like everything would come together seamlessly. Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team, or that this time the sponsors will come rushing in. HI, today you are sounding a lot more reasonable than you did yesterday. You are starting to incorporate the real challenges that will have to be overcome for this to succeed into your argument, but it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other tea partier who think the UK players just have to walk on the field and JA WC ticket will be more secure than Brazil's. LOL.
"The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems."
If a laugh i may pop, what crock what tremendous energy? -flying to brazil to find coaches to give them multi-million $ contracts? and then turn around an give a local coach without much experience 'a try' fi two 2 festival -or enriching brazil football camps with vacation tours -and where is the call for Project Jamaica mad scientists unuh licky licky and wanga gut instant success mek unuh belly rule unuh why bother wid a 12 year plan when u can google a team pon u ipad
Every 4 years our fanatics head tek them as every 4 years they sense the dream of flying to a world cup to wave a jamaican flag for 3 games again seems elusive
Stop the farin mindedness set in place by the me first politricksters always a borrower and Build a Football industry not a World cup qualifying ponzi scheme selling the Same Lotto Tickets every 4 years
the more u guys sweat every WCQ, is the more the JFF syndicate get fatter round the waist and the neck
If concern over long-term finance hinders having the best players on the field, forget long-term finance because if the team go on a losing streak they won't have any fans in the long-term anyway.
Long-term financing to me is a financial roadmap/budget to sustain the programme for a cycle, which I see as a 4 year period. Most people are only concern with the next game, but should the JFF operate under that mentality?
Good question PeLe; the JFF really have to find a way to overcome this if money becomes an issue to having a number of UK ballas here.
They found a way in starting off spending, I think 6 million for U17 going to Brazil. Then they scratch and crawl for 10 milliom more to extend their stay. They made a way.
At the time I did say that this 'investment', still trying to figure out how it qualifies as 'investment', was going to come back to haunt the JFF when it is time for the seniors. I was told 'investing' in the yutes could never be wrong even if only one of them go on to sign a deal. That seemed reasonable at the time and many people saw it that way.
You guys are like the tea party in USA politics. Unnu argument is not practical, because it is not sustainable. It is mre akin to a ponzi scheme like G stated, but it sounds reasonable to many because of the situation and blunders the JFF created and the lies unnu tell unnuself to make it seems like everything would come together seamlessly. Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team, or that this time the sponsors will come rushing in. HI, today you are sounding a lot more reasonable than you did yesterday. You are starting to incorporate the real challenges that will have to be overcome for this to succeed into your argument, but it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other tea partier who think the UK players just have to walk on the field and JA WC ticket will be more secure than Brazil's. LOL.
I've to be brief here...have to go to work.
Pele to be honest I don't think anyone on here is arguing against what is practical. There's a lot of emotion that goes into these responses and sometimes things are not thought through before they are post. So I would give some man the benefit of the doubt.
Of all the arguments I've made the one i'm trumpeting the loudest is for the JFF to have a change of midset. To see the UK ballas as a project in of itself, as oppose to a place to find a few pieces.
Our best ballas of the nucleus; DANE, PHILLIPS, CUMMINGS, JASON, and when one think that there is at least eight in the UK that either as good or better (on the pitch we will know), than our best four at the same position that is cause for excitement. D. STURIDGE -winger/midfielder/striker -EPL J, BECKFORD -striker -Championship C. HUMPREY -winger -Scotish EPL Z.HINES -attacking midfield -Championship D. PRATLEY -holding midfielder -EPL D. GORDON -midfielder -Bundesliga 2 K. HENRY -midfielder -EPL J. McANUFF -midfielder -EPL S. EBANKS-BLAKE -striker -EPL S. SINCLAIR -winger -EPL
Pele listen mi good, the UK ballas (Simpson, Burton, Hall) we used in the past were integral to our success and they all play top flight; and I believe if Jamaica had look deeper there was probably more there.
Now It's the first time we've ever seen so many at one time eligible to play for Jamaica, playing top flight football.
Do you think if we had little more quality and depth on the '98 squad we would have better showing???
You guys are like the tea party in USA politics. Unnu argument is not practical, because it is not sustainable. It is more akin to a ponzi scheme like G stated, but it sounds reasonable to many because of the situation and blunders the JFF created and the lies unnu tell unnuself to make it seems like everything would come together seamlessly. Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team, or that this time the sponsors will come rushing in. HI, today you are sounding a lot more reasonable than you did yesterday. You are starting to incorporate the real challenges that will have to be overcome for this to succeed into your argument, but it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other tea partier who think the UK players just have to walk on the field and JA WC ticket will be more secure than Brazil's. LOL
Pele, do me a favor if you're in disagreement or think an argument is impractical, at least provide a quote of what you think is off in someone's argument. Don't just minimize and critisize and no one knows what you are critical of; cause that kind of criticizm would fall into the category of Mumbo jumbo.
You mention something about sponsorers rushing in, i'm not sure if that was directed toward me or not, since i had not make any such statements about sponsorers rushing, i'll leave that up to you to clarify.
"....it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the others..."
Though you're not specific in whom you think are nutty & giddy, and you have separated me from that thought, the I really need fi make a corret distinction between people's emotion, the excitement of the moment in what potentially Jamaica's soccer could become, from any who are trully nut cases.
Sometimes personally my emotion gets the best of me, and not taking the time to think something through and I would post a dud. We are all guilty of this including yourself.
Perfect example: for anyone to equate what some of us on here are calling for in Jmaica soccer to being a ponzi scheme, is an emotional statement. G made an emotional point that he had not thought through; he's not a nut case in any stretch of the imagination because of it.
What is a ponzi scheme? in a nutshell it's an illegal business investment venture.
There's nothing illegal about any of the players who qualified to play for Jamaica, its FIFa sanctioned. So how does this equate to a ponzi scheme?
Pele my advise to the I when you reasoning with me just stay on the subject matter, instead of resorting to innuedos and insinuations that doesn't communicate a clear thought.
"The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems."
If a laugh i may pop, what crock what tremendous energy? -flying to brazil to find coaches to give them multi-million $ contracts? and then turn around an give a local coach without much experience 'a try' fi two 2 festival -or enriching brazil football camps with vacation tours -and where is the call for Project Jamaica mad scientists unuh licky licky and wanga gut instant success mek unuh belly rule unuh why bother wid a 12 year plan when u can google a team pon u ipad
Every 4 years our fanatics head tek them as every 4 years they sense the dream of flying to a world cup to wave a jamaican flag for 3 games again seems elusive
Stop the farin mindedness set in place by the me first politricksters always a borrower and Build a Football industry not a World cup qualifying ponzi scheme selling the Same Lotto Tickets every 4 years
the more u guys sweat every WCQ, is the more the JFF syndicate get fatter round the waist and the neck
hehheh
G I tek some of this as joke...and some things serious..
You don't give them no credit for upgrading the coaching ranks, trying to bring the league into a more professional outfit, having a more descent national team product on the pitch, their work with the underage teams, building relationships in BRAZIL etc?
Come on, they have to have done some things commendable don't you think? good Psychology G can lead to other things....
The PONZI scheme comparison is just a good joke...
WOW! And yet despite all the glorifications you are calling for Project England!!
That just reduces your massive Big up of the FF to a big F.
After expending tremendous energy to do all of the above it’s back to the google list!! And since they, the JFF syndicate, are professionals at preparing for WCQs, bout 3-4 by now, then you actually admitting Failure and embarrassment at their program. But u too shame fi admit it up front.
Ok now I ovastand u.
Credit for upgrading the coaching ranks –
Ok so u say they exert tremendous energy to upgrade the coaching yet they fly in assistant coaches from brazil. So what happened to the new ranking local coaches, dem nuh ready fi assistant?
Building relationships with BRAZIL – mi nuh si nuh brazilian girls as cheerleaders so a guess wi haffi wait fi dat
More professional outfit – how much more professional?
Come on, stop sugar coat di suga daddies at JFF.
A correct and useful diagnosis must be the first step in effecting a genuine cure whether it is a sore foot or a failed federation, sorry a mean syndicate.
Listen I have proposed on here that we have a lot of wannabees in England enough to field a team there in ingland that could play int’l matches on FIFA int’l match days, maybe have a JBarnes in charge, supported by English sponsors.
Those players would mold together and be an option when we qualify AND they do not have to beg time off from their bread and butter commitment to travel to play for JA abroad, the matches are right there or a skip and a jump on the euro continent. TD screens the films and picks as he sees fit for a closer look when the time is right. But no other nation I know of is doing it so Jamaica not gonna venture there.
But again the local team, and more important, the local Pro League and football industry has to form the basis of your WCQ as only these lads can travel at will. Stuff will always come up with the overseas mercenaries and u cannot build a team depending on guys who gonna fake injuries to not play when it is not convenient for them or their coaches, they look the other way. While wi local ballas get frustrated and turn 'law' enforcement offisahs.
Build a WCQ team from the internet in 18 months
Or build an industry that will last for ages
Edited by G. (09/14/1106:22 PM)
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
You guys are like the tea party in USA politics. Unnu argument is not practical, because it is not sustainable. It is more akin to a ponzi scheme like G stated, but it sounds reasonable to many because of the situation and blunders the JFF created and the lies unnu tell unnuself to make it seems like everything would come together seamlessly. Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team, or that this time the sponsors will come rushing in. HI, today you are sounding a lot more reasonable than you did yesterday. You are starting to incorporate the real challenges that will have to be overcome for this to succeed into your argument, but it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other tea partier who think the UK players just have to walk on the field and JA WC ticket will be more secure than Brazil's. LOL
Pele, do me a favor if you're in disagreement or think an argument is impractical, at least provide a quote of what you think is off in someone's argument. Don't just minimize and critisize and no one knows what you are critical of; cause that kind of criticizm would fall into the category of Mumbo jumbo.
You mention something about sponsorers rushing in, i'm not sure if that was directed toward me or not, since i had not make any such statements about sponsorers rushing, i'll leave that up to you to clarify.
"....it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the others..."
Though you're not specific in whom you think are nutty & giddy, and you have separated me from that thought, the I really need fi make a corret distinction between people's emotion, the excitement of the moment in what potentially Jamaica's soccer could become, from any who are trully nut cases.
Sometimes personally my emotion gets the best of me, and not taking the time to think something through and I would post a dud. We are all guilty of this including yourself.
Perfect example: for anyone to equate what some of us on here are calling for in Jmaica soccer to being a ponzi scheme, is an emotional statement. G made an emotional point that he had not thought through; he's not a nut case in any stretch of the imagination because of it.
What is a ponzi scheme? in a nutshell it's an illegal business investment venture.
There's nothing illegal about any of the players who qualified to play for Jamaica, its FIFa sanctioned. So how does this equate to a ponzi scheme?
Pele my advise to the I when you reasoning with me just stay on the subject matter, instead of resorting to innuedos and insinuations that doesn't communicate a clear thought.
I hear you HI.
I would like to believe that 2 man reasoning wouldn't need to act as if they were in a court of law where everything is taken literally.
You really mean fi tell mi seh G use of the phrase 'ponzi scheme' necessitated you stating your literal understanding of the phrase to then challenge his use of the phrase? G gave a full write up of his position before using the phrase, therefore there is no way you can conclude that G meant the players were illegal.
A ponzi scheme could also mean something that is smoke and mirrors, something without a foundation that will eventually come tumbling down, something thrown together in a hasty manner that only accentuate the positives while ignoring/downplaying the many negatives/challenges which will eventually be its undoing.
Don't want to speak for G, but after reading his entire post, those were the definitions that came to my mind when I got to the phrase 'ponzi scheme'. 'Illegal business investment venture' never entered my mind until you mentioned it.
As you can see we can reason to find solutions or we can reason solely to win arguments. My reasoning are not that deep or nuanced for you not to understand if you want to understand. Mi no just drop a phrase and leave it just so, mi usually write a book around my position in an effort to make it as crystal clear as possible.
I would like to believe that 2 man reasoning wouldn't need to act as if they were in a court of law where everything is taken literally.
So are you sying I shouldn't take this point you made before lieterally? I'll post it below:
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
You guys are like the tea party in USA politics. Unnu argument is not practical, because it is not sustainable. It is more akin to a ponzi scheme like G stated, but it sounds reasonable to many because of the situation and blunders the JFF created and the lies unnu tell unnuself to make it seems like everything would come together seamlessly. Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team, or that this time the sponsors will come rushing in. HI, today you are sounding a lot more reasonable than you did yesterday. You are starting to incorporate the real challenges that will have to be overcome for this to succeed into your argument, but it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other tea partier who think the UK players just have to walk on the field and JA WC ticket will be more secure than Brazil's. LOL
unnu argument is not practical not sustainable Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other
Again you're saying the critisizm you've made above I shouldn't take as such but it's just humor?............
Pele I tell you what, since i'm not interested in making anyone look bad or put anyone down mek we just stick to debating the issues on point agreeing to disagree. I know a joke when I see one....
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
You really mean fi tell mi seh G use of the phrase 'ponzi scheme' necessitated you stating your literal understanding of the phrase to then challenge his use of the phrase? G gave a full write up of his position before using the phrase, therefore there is no way you can conclude that G meant the players were illegal.
What? Pele I did not call G to the carpet in his use of the term Ponzi scheme. I used it in response to you as an example of an emotional response and a joke. Look what I wrote to G. I told him I took it as a joke. So read again..
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
As you can see we can reason to find solutions or we can reason solely to win arguments. My reasoning are not that deep or nuanced for you not to understand if you want to understand. Mi no just drop a phrase and leave it just so, mi usually write a book around my position in an effort to make it as crystal clear as possible.
I hope I made myself clear.
As far as those resaoning to "win arguments" you can exclude me from that category. I have no interest to come on here and waste my precious time to win arguments. I have no ego to defend or prop up, the Lord took that from me. I'm only interested in helping our football, and we can all agree to disagree without the drama.
"my arguments not deep...mi just a drop a phrase and leave it,,,"
The I fi tek responsibility for what comes out of your mouth....
This position of yours remind me of this movie I watched recently where after this martial arts lady pounded this man with kicks and realize it hadn't immobilize the man but make him angry; she scream out I'm a woman.
To me this is all a distraction and a waste of time to the issues we should be talking about.
All I'm saying If the argument I presented you agree or disagree with state it so, without resorting to ambigious responses filled with innuendos and insinuations.
I'm not making arguments so people will think i'm bright, or full of ideas. 'cause I know some people on here think that's what i'm about; they can't recognize genuiness if it smacks them in the face. I'm a genuine humble yute (when one gets to know me) that have a passion for Jamaica soccer.
If someone argument i believe is better than the one I made I'll be the first to jump on it and say its a better argument. I'm the first to admit wrong and apologise when necessary, even if it make me look bad. Those are traits of humility....very important to Jah Christ....
"The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems."
If a laugh i may pop, what crock what tremendous energy? -flying to brazil to find coaches to give them multi-million $ contracts? and then turn around an give a local coach without much experience 'a try' fi two 2 festival -or enriching brazil football camps with vacation tours -and where is the call for Project Jamaica mad scientists unuh licky licky and wanga gut instant success mek unuh belly rule unuh why bother wid a 12 year plan when u can google a team pon u ipad
Every 4 years our fanatics head tek them as every 4 years they sense the dream of flying to a world cup to wave a jamaican flag for 3 games again seems elusive
Stop the farin mindedness set in place by the me first politricksters always a borrower and Build a Football industry not a World cup qualifying ponzi scheme selling the Same Lotto Tickets every 4 years
the more u guys sweat every WCQ, is the more the JFF syndicate get fatter round the waist and the neck
hehheh
Originally Posted By: G.
[ Listen I have proposed on here that we have a lot of wannabees in England enough to field a team there in England that could play int’l matches on FIFA int’l match days, maybe have a JBarnes in charge, supported by English sponsors.
Those players would mold together and be an option when we qualify AND they do not have to beg time off from their bread and butter commitment to travel to play for JA abroad, the matches are right there or a skip and a jump on the euro continent. TD screens the films and picks as he sees fit for a closer look when the time is right. But no other nation I know of is doing it so Jamaica not gonna venture there.
But again the local team, and more important, the local Pro League and football industry has to form the basis of your WCQ as only these lads can travel at will. Stuff will always come up with the overseas mercenaries and u cannot build a team depending on guys who gonna fake injuries to not play when it is not convenient for them or their coaches, they look the other way. While wi local ballas get frustrated and turn 'law' enforcement offisahs.
I do agree that my use of the term "tremendous" could be considered overstating. However, I would be dishonest to say BURRELL had not done anything good for Jamaica soccer.
Giving him credit for good things done is not an endorsement for present flawed decisions undertaken by him.
Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 16612
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(Players who represent one country in an official youth competition can later make a one-time switch if they were eligible for the second country at the time they played for the first country.)
I would like to believe that 2 man reasoning wouldn't need to act as if they were in a court of law where everything is taken literally.
So are you sying I shouldn't take this point you made before lieterally? I'll post it below:
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
You guys are like the tea party in USA politics. Unnu argument is not practical, because it is not sustainable. It is more akin to a ponzi scheme like G stated, but it sounds reasonable to many because of the situation and blunders the JFF created and the lies unnu tell unnuself to make it seems like everything would come together seamlessly. Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team, or that this time the sponsors will come rushing in. HI, today you are sounding a lot more reasonable than you did yesterday. You are starting to incorporate the real challenges that will have to be overcome for this to succeed into your argument, but it appears you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other tea partier who think the UK players just have to walk on the field and JA WC ticket will be more secure than Brazil's. LOL
unnu argument is not practical not sustainable Lies such as forgetting that this is not the first time UK ballas were incorporated in the team you are just trying not to sound as nutty and giddy as the other
Again you're saying the critisizm you've made above I shouldn't take as such but it's just humor?............
Pele I tell you what, since i'm not interested in making anyone look bad or put anyone down mek we just stick to debating the issues on point agreeing to disagree. I know a joke when I see one....
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
You really mean fi tell mi seh G use of the phrase 'ponzi scheme' necessitated you stating your literal understanding of the phrase to then challenge his use of the phrase? G gave a full write up of his position before using the phrase, therefore there is no way you can conclude that G meant the players were illegal.
What? Pele I did not call G to the carpet in his use of the term Ponzi scheme. I used it in response to you as an example of an emotional response and a joke. Look what I wrote to G. I told him I took it as a joke. So read again..
Originally Posted By: pelepapa
As you can see we can reason to find solutions or we can reason solely to win arguments. My reasoning are not that deep or nuanced for you not to understand if you want to understand. Mi no just drop a phrase and leave it just so, mi usually write a book around my position in an effort to make it as crystal clear as possible.
I hope I made myself clear.
As far as those resaoning to "win arguments" you can exclude me from that category. I have no interest to come on here and waste my precious time to win arguments. I have no ego to defend or prop up, the Lord took that from me. I'm only interested in helping our football, and we can all agree to disagree without the drama.
"my arguments not deep...mi just a drop a phrase and leave it,,,"
The I fi tek responsibility for what comes out of your mouth....
This position of yours remind me of this movie I watched recently where after this martial arts lady pounded this man with kicks and realize it hadn't immobilize the man but make him angry; she scream out I'm a woman.
To me this is all a distraction and a waste of time to the issues we should be talking about.
All I'm saying If the argument I presented you agree or disagree with state it so, without resorting to ambigious responses filled with innuendos and insinuations.
I'm not making arguments so people will think i'm bright, or full of ideas. 'cause I know some people on here think that's what i'm about; they can't recognize genuiness if it smacks them in the face. I'm a genuine humble yute (when one gets to know me) that have a passion for Jamaica soccer.
If someone argument i believe is better than the one I made I'll be the first to jump on it and say its a better argument. I'm the first to admit wrong and apologise when necessary, even if it make me look bad. Those are traits of humility....very important to Jah Christ....
This long response of yours is so filled with misinformation that it has to be joke. The misinformation is so numerous and blatant that I can't even blame them on an emotional response.
If I say to you that a plan is impractical because it is unsustainable, where is there a need to decide whether to take that literally or not?
Regarding the "ponzi scheme" phrase you claimed it was an emotional response on G's part because it didn't fit your definition of the term. Now I am not even sure what you are saying in reference to that. You said something about a joke, but how many people joke by stating a definition of a term and challenge the user to reconcile the definition to his argument?
Finally you talk about me being responsible for what comes out my mouth and reminding you of a movie, but of course the only way that is possible is for you to misquote a very simple statement I made.
I said "mi NO just drop phrase and leave it so". Yet you rewrote that simple statement to read."...mi...just drop phrase and leave it so". I am sure you can see the huge distinction in those 2 statements, or are you going to say it was another joke.
Since when you became this big joker anyway? Never pegged you for a joker. LOL.
This is what we have been talking about. It is important to look far and wide for players, and Klinsmann is casting the net. I am especially impressed by Rongen's compilation of that list of 500 players, and the intensity of his research. The JFF is so disorganized and backward that they would never have the sense to do such a thing.
Klinsmann and U.S. look globally for players
By Simon Evans
MIAMI, Sept 16 (Reuters) - United States head coach Juergen Klinsmann will trawl the globe for dual-citizen players to represent the country and hopes to start by handing German-born Fabian Johnson a debut in next month’s friendly matches.
Klinsmann has already used German-born Timmy Chandler and Jermaine Jones, both originally selected by his predecessor Bob Bradley, and he called up Johnson for the recent friendlies against Costa Rica and Belgium although he was not yet eligible to play.
The former Bayern Munich and German national team coach said on Friday he hoped FIFA would complete Johnson’s switch of allegiance in time for the Oct. 8 friendly against Honduras in Miami and that he expected other dual citizens to be brought into the U.S. system in the future.
“The dual-citizenship issue is something that is out there for every country in the soccer world,” Klinsmann said in a telephone interview with South Florida reporters.
“If you look at what has happened with Germany in the last 10 years, producing a lot of dual-citizenship kids who decided then to play for Germany which gave them a lot of very good players.”
Germany focused on immigrants or the sons of immigrants from countries such as Turkey, Poland, Tunisia and that allowed them to bring through players such as Sami Khedira, Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolksi into the national team.
While Klinsmann did not discuss specific future targets, there are several potential recruits in the Bundesliga, such as Hoffenheim’s Daniel Williams and younger talents such as Houston-born Fabian Huerzeler, who is part of Bayern Munich’s youth system.
For the U.S., the target is not only the sons of American servicemen in Germany but also players with joint Mexican and U.S. eligibility, such as recent Klinsmann selections Jose Torres and Edgar Castillo.
“It all started really with France in the 1990’s—if you look at what team France won the World Cup with in 1998, then you understand how hot the topic of dual-citizenship is,” Klinsmann said.
“If they didn’t have Zinedine Zidane, (Lilian) Thuram or (Youri) Djorkaeff, I doubt they would have won the World Cup. It is a very important topic for all of us, it is a global race basically.”
Former U.S. under-20 coach Thomas Rongen researched a list of around 500 players, from youth level upwards, who are scattered around the globe but could be eligible to play for the country.
“Thomas did an amazing job with his list and we have additional information from other people,” Klinsmann said.
“I can be of a big help with my network in Europe and in South America and we identify those kids. We have people watching them.”
At the 1994 World Cup, the U.S. featured dual-citizens Earnie Stewart and Thomas Dooley, who were born in the Netherlands and Germany respectively, but Klinsmann believes the key now is reaching players early enough to get them into the U.S. youth system.
“I’m not trying to get them straight into the first team at 17, 18 or 19 years old,” he said. “I am a little more conservative on developing those players.
“It is important we observe them in games,” Klinsmann said, adding that coaches at Olympic and age-group levels would be expected to integrate them into the U.S. set-up.
The 23-year-old Johnson, who plays in the Bundesliga for Hoffenheim and was born in Munich, has represented Germany at youth and under-21 level and so needs to undergo a FIFA clearance for change of allegiance.
“We hope that FIFA clears him in the next two or three weeks and as soon as the paperwork is cleared and if he is fit and healthy then we would love to call him in for the Miami game,” Klinsmann said.
After facing Honduras in Florida, the U.S. take on Ecuador in New Jersey on Oct. 11.
"Project England" as we can clearly see does make sense for us.
Klingsman has scouts watching these players they are targeting.
They too realize that to break into the top ten rankings in the world they need better quality and technical players.
Likewise we need better technical players to consistently compete with USA & MEX. If we don't make this move similar to what the USA is doing we'll be left behind mired in mediocrity.
We would be farther away from the USA because of what they're doing if we remain the same.
There has to be some sort of a Project in England than just the limited ideas of just looking for a few pieces to the puzzle.
Will the JFF learn from the USA example or we'll hear the usual money excuse argument??
"The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems."
If a laugh i may pop, what crock what tremendous energy? -flying to brazil to find coaches to give them multi-million $ contracts? and then turn around an give a local coach without much experience 'a try' fi two 2 festival -or enriching brazil football camps with vacation tours -and where is the call for Project Jamaica mad scientists unuh licky licky and wanga gut instant success mek unuh belly rule unuh why bother wid a 12 year plan when u can google a team pon u ipad
Every 4 years our fanatics head tek them as every 4 years they sense the dream of flying to a world cup to wave a jamaican flag for 3 games again seems elusive
Stop the farin mindedness set in place by the me first politricksters always a borrower and Build a Football industry not a World cup qualifying ponzi scheme selling the Same Lotto Tickets every 4 years
the more u guys sweat every WCQ, is the more the JFF syndicate get fatter round the waist and the neck
hehheh
Originally Posted By: G.
[ Listen I have proposed on here that we have a lot of wannabees in England enough to field a team there in England that could play int’l matches on FIFA int’l match days, maybe have a JBarnes in charge, supported by English sponsors.
Those players would mold together and be an option when we qualify AND they do not have to beg time off from their bread and butter commitment to travel to play for JA abroad, the matches are right there or a skip and a jump on the euro continent. TD screens the films and picks as he sees fit for a closer look when the time is right. But no other nation I know of is doing it so Jamaica not gonna venture there.
But again the local team, and more important, the local Pro League and football industry has to form the basis of your WCQ as only these lads can travel at will. Stuff will always come up with the overseas mercenaries and u cannot build a team depending on guys who gonna fake injuries to not play when it is not convenient for them or their coaches, they look the other way. While wi local ballas get frustrated and turn 'law' enforcement offisahs.
I do agree that my use of the term "tremendous" could be considered overstating. However, I would be dishonest to say BURRELL had not done anything good for Jamaica soccer.
Giving him credit for good things done is not an endorsement for present flawed decisions undertaken by him.
Peace out....
G. where is your apology, do I need to spell it out?
“If you look at what has happened with Germany in the last 10 years, producing a lot of dual-citizenship kids who decided then to play for Germany which gave them a lot of very good players.”
Noticed these were LOCAL products.
Quote:
“It all started really with France in the 1990’s—if you look at what team France won the World Cup with in 1998, then you understand how hot the topic of dual-citizenship is,” Klinsmann said.
“If they didn’t have Zinedine Zidane, (Lilian) Thuram or (Youri) Djorkaeff, I doubt they would have won the World Cup.
Where did Zidane, Thuram and Djorkaeff play their first decade of league football. In France. France and Germany have their pro leagues to hone their duals. Where is our pro league? In 6 week camps in Brazil?
Notice Klinsmann ultimate intent:
Quote:
At the 1994 World Cup, the U.S. featured dual-citizens Earnie Stewart and Thomas Dooley, who were born in the Netherlands and Germany respectively, but Klinsmann believes the key now is reaching players early enough to get them into the U.S. youth system.
“I’m not trying to get them straight into the first team at 17, 18 or 19 years old,” he said. “I am a little more conservative on developing those players.
“It is important we observe them in games,” Klinsmann said, adding that coaches at Olympic and age-group levels would be expected to integrate them into the U.S. set-up.
Klinsmann know that grabbing players for WC campaigns are SHORT TERM strategies so he wants them at an early age to incorporate them in the US system.
You Mr. Hamilton on the other hand breathing down JFF’s neck to launch Project England to find English ballas for a WC campaign who after the WC go back to England with experience to further develop the English league.
I remain committed to a long term plan that seeks to develop a solid local pro league that will form the basis of WCQualifying and more important, build a football industry in Jamaica. Where the TD sees fit he can add committed overseas mercenaries where appropriate.
So go ahead and have an ice cream for finding an article that supports my position. Bless
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
"The JFF rightfully have expended tremendous energy to upgrade Jamaica’s football and its systems."
If a laugh i may pop, what crock what tremendous energy? -flying to brazil to find coaches to give them multi-million $ contracts? and then turn around an give a local coach without much experience 'a try' fi two 2 festival -or enriching brazil football camps with vacation tours -and where is the call for Project Jamaica mad scientists unuh licky licky and wanga gut instant success mek unuh belly rule unuh why bother wid a 12 year plan when u can google a team pon u ipad
Every 4 years our fanatics head tek them as every 4 years they sense the dream of flying to a world cup to wave a jamaican flag for 3 games again seems elusive
Stop the farin mindedness set in place by the me first politricksters always a borrower and Build a Football industry not a World cup qualifying ponzi scheme selling the Same Lotto Tickets every 4 years
the more u guys sweat every WCQ, is the more the JFF syndicate get fatter round the waist and the neck
hehheh
Originally Posted By: G.
[ Listen I have proposed on here that we have a lot of wannabees in England enough to field a team there in England that could play int’l matches on FIFA int’l match days, maybe have a JBarnes in charge, supported by English sponsors.
Those players would mold together and be an option when we qualify AND they do not have to beg time off from their bread and butter commitment to travel to play for JA abroad, the matches are right there or a skip and a jump on the euro continent. TD screens the films and picks as he sees fit for a closer look when the time is right. But no other nation I know of is doing it so Jamaica not gonna venture there.
But again the local team, and more important, the local Pro League and football industry has to form the basis of your WCQ as only these lads can travel at will. Stuff will always come up with the overseas mercenaries and u cannot build a team depending on guys who gonna fake injuries to not play when it is not convenient for them or their coaches, they look the other way. While wi local ballas get frustrated and turn 'law' enforcement offisahs.
I do agree that my use of the term "tremendous" could be considered overstating. However, I would be dishonest to say BURRELL had not done anything good for Jamaica soccer.
Giving him credit for good things done is not an endorsement for present flawed decisions undertaken by him.
Peace out....
G. where is your apology, do I need to spell it out?
In trying to shot down my argument, calling me "foreign minded," with a football "ponzi scheme" while at the same time saying you've proposed the very same thing about R'Boyz having the UK players. This shows that you are a contradictory individual.
First, I didn't draw you out but gave you space to simply say, Israel I've made a mistake, and that would have being the end of it. No, but instead you choose to avoid your debacle, and on top of that try to shot me down again on a totally different argument all together.
Therefore this only reveals that your inflated ego won't allow you to face the truth about your contradictory self; that you're a phoney, insincere, pretentious individual.
)
