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#151553 - 03/18/10 12:33 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: SamtheMan!!]
Carver2
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Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1615

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 Originally Posted By: SamtheMan!!
Zilla, ur previous post kinda seemed like an attack so that was why my rebuttal seemed kinda strong...I've been in the industry for years, came back from NYC in 2001 from audio school and an extensive stint @ sony music studios...I'm just sick of in my opinion Jamaicans turning their back on something that is so much apart of every one of us...Certainly it has it's problems and I have argued with people about the venom being spewed by our local protagonists of said art form as well...

But problems aside my dissatisfaction was hearing a Bajan politician blame our music for downtrends in their society...That just pissed me off, your points are well taken but there is still a lot of positive stuff out there as you may well be aware of, regulating what is heard by our youth I guess could be one step in the right direction...I just cannot put the blame solely on the artists...Dancehall 4 the most part is fun Zilla man, we are born with logic and the ability to reason, unfortunately that ability is lost on a lot of our countrymen


SamtheMan!!!, having indicated that you're intimately associated with dancehall and that it means a lot to you, perhaps you need to change the focus of any argument you make regarding the music.

How about arguments that accentuate the positives of dancehall, more so than those that sap your energy trying to debunk the negatives?

Make no mistake about it, the negatives are quite pervasive...

You do concur that the genre has issues, so everyone is in agreement on that. Instead of going toe-to-toe with others on this singular aspect of the music, isn't it better to point out the positives as you know them to be?

Better yet, how about suggesting ways by which dancehall can redeem itself?
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#151566 - 03/18/10 10:00 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Carver2]
SamtheMan!!
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Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 1003
Loc: Kingston, Palm Harbor, Fl, SI ...

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Whole other topic Carver, just addressing immediate issues....I love it because that's all I've known in my professional life, but I also hate what it's become in a lot of ways...When the time permits we'll explore it's obvious potential to bring forward unity and all things positive...
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#151577 - 03/18/10 04:45 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: CARTER]
my2cents
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Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 696

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 Originally Posted By: CARTER
I support the Barbados move myself unless these artists start hurting financially they will not clean up their music. We all see how the music polarise people in Jamaica well Barbados is trying to stop that from happening on their Island. Live with it people it is their rights and they are a very conservative group people so you of to understand. Watch it is going to spread. Reggae should be positive ites and everyone around the world love positive reggae music but you have some artist is killing the vibes.

Mi nah lie its a good talk bout mi cant fight dancehall
Movado a mi DJ
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#151579 - 03/18/10 05:42 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: my2cents]
jt Moderator
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well I agreed with Barbados, but maybe thats more to do with I cant tek the movado and vybz kartel rubbish..

But on another point zilla, with your description of 3 miles to down town is this just not a branch of what is happening around the world.. The celebrity culture and get rich quick or die trying attitude....

Is it really the music or a lack of choice
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#151581 - 03/18/10 07:01 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
Humble Lion
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Registered: 07/30/07
Posts: 680

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Barbados have dem rights still
but dat still nuh mean seh it right

a waan tell yuh seh it come een like within the dancehall genre yuh have different genres
and it come een like di Bajan dem a seh dem nuh want a certain genre over deh

a hope dem naw use gully and gaza and judge the whole ting

dat a just di gangster dancehall
from di days of don gorgon gun pon teeth to peeeeooople deeeaaad original bounty
and mi know some elder can tell wi bout some a di 70's gangster dj dem
gangster dj deh yah from dancehall start and it naw guh nuh weh

if yuh nu want hear dat

den yuh have the culture dancehall
di Ras dem, and few 'shines' ;\) even the big Laden tune deh
assasin, bugle have some good tune to

den yuh have goofy and nuts and kiprich and some adda jokey jokey dj.. barky and wickerman if a 'comedic' dancehall yuh rather

mi not even touch di singer dem inna dancehall
who a sing pon some big bad riddim like shank i shenk or death in the arena
who say gyal tune??

suh careful how wi use one brush paint di whole a dem

mi memba one time yuh haffi literally guh inna di dancehall fi hear dancehall
no radio ting
no commercial ting

so dem time deh man coulda dj anything pon di mike
if yuh nu ketch di lyrics pon cassette
yu miss di lyrics \:D
when yuh talk bout lyrics inna dem day deh yuh a talk bout san, trees, nuts, stitchie
how much 'hit record' dem man deh have?

now?
true di ting get suh commercial
di artist dem better create a market a dem own or have a plan fi mek some money widdout certain market

or, tone it down

we can't deny Kartel writing ability regardless a di lyrics
yuh may not be a ManU fan, but Rooney get him props

neither can we deny the fact that movado's voice is one never ever heard in the dancehall
who know dancehall know seh some a di singer dem sound alike
matter a fact
artist mek dem career a sound like next artist

nobody ever sounded like Movado before
totally unique
listen di Church tune di yute sing man??!!
on the rock or supm like dat

so even inna di bad
yu have good

the task at hand is fi find a way fi get dem yute yah wid undoubted god given talent fi realize dem rightful reason fi deh yah

dat a di task

BLESS

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#151587 - 03/19/10 05:33 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Humble Lion]
jt Moderator
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True dat Humble Lion.. Thats why I had to confess that my view was tainted by the dislike of these two characters and guys like them that dont seem to understand the bigger yu get the more responsibility... They just heard Puff Daddy's lyrics and tek it mean something else... More money more problems... Dem say more money more haters... Then it stop deh suh... So its like as soon as yu say something bad bout them, u R a hater.. chi ching ching...

But in saying that and understanding where zilla ah come from I still have to ask why do we always say dancehall influences the youth, music influences the youth, but we cant say christian music mek youths turn good...

There has to be something more than the music???
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#151592 - 03/19/10 06:19 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
shaggybear
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Registered: 03/27/01
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Them have one and two nice biscuit over there though. \:D
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#151597 - 03/19/10 07:16 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: shaggybear]
Marklon
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Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 613
Loc: nj-bergen-usa

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I agree with you Moderator, this is bigger than morality,as black people we always sing of our pain, love, joy whatever, the affulent never like reggae music until dem figure dollars, i dont agree with these lyrics, but show me wich Reggae artist do music soley on gun lyrics, chi- chi man, and dis woman, blaming Reggae music for moral degenarcy that's a bit much, condem the Faggot dem publicaly, but dem can come a hotel and carry on, just dont disturb di yankee dollas, there are plenty of real things that contribute to moral break down, ' Ah Reggae Dance Hall Music, i dont think so', still i dont necessarily disagree with any country protecting their culture, i just can't deal w.ith the hyprocy
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#151601 - 03/19/10 09:48 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Humble Lion]
zilla
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Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1190
Loc: Kingston, Jamaica

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 Originally Posted By: Humble Lion
Barbados have dem rights still
but dat still nuh mean seh it right

a waan tell yuh seh it come een like within the dancehall genre yuh have different genres
and it come een like di Bajan dem a seh dem nuh want a certain genre over deh

a hope dem naw use gully and gaza and judge the whole ting

dat a just di gangster dancehall
from di days of don gorgon gun pon teeth to peeeeooople deeeaaad original bounty
and mi know some elder can tell wi bout some a di 70's gangster dj dem
gangster dj deh yah from dancehall start and it naw guh nuh weh

if yuh nu want hear dat

den yuh have the culture dancehall
di Ras dem, and few 'shines' ;\) even the big Laden tune deh
assasin, bugle have some good tune to

den yuh have goofy and nuts and kiprich and some adda jokey jokey dj.. barky and wickerman if a 'comedic' dancehall yuh rather

mi not even touch di singer dem inna dancehall
who a sing pon some big bad riddim like shank i shenk or death in the arena
who say gyal tune??

suh careful how wi use one brush paint di whole a dem

mi memba one time yuh haffi literally guh inna di dancehall fi hear dancehall
no radio ting
no commercial ting

so dem time deh man coulda dj anything pon di mike
if yuh nu ketch di lyrics pon cassette
yu miss di lyrics \:D
when yuh talk bout lyrics inna dem day deh yuh a talk bout san, trees, nuts, stitchie
how much 'hit record' dem man deh have?

now?
true di ting get suh commercial
di artist dem better create a market a dem own or have a plan fi mek some money widdout certain market

or, tone it down

we can't deny Kartel writing ability regardless a di lyrics
yuh may not be a ManU fan, but Rooney get him props

neither can we deny the fact that movado's voice is one never ever heard in the dancehall
who know dancehall know seh some a di singer dem sound alike
matter a fact
artist mek dem career a sound like next artist

nobody ever sounded like Movado before
totally unique
listen di Church tune di yute sing man??!!
on the rock or supm like dat

so even inna di bad
yu have good

the task at hand is fi find a way fi get dem yute yah wid undoubted god given talent fi realize dem rightful reason fi deh yah

dat a di task

BLESS






Who dat? the humble one. All is well mi boss. Mi nah seh all dancehall bad innu, mi a talk bout the recent crap, such kartel and movado. Mi hear kartel wid a song wen bolt win the championship usain, usian. I neva hear such lack of musical cordination.

For me there are varying genres in the music but i refuse to accept dancehall as a culture. The current dancehall is no culture to be proud of. Dont get mi wrong, mi like the don dada, general trees a di best, beenie use to lock dun the place. Mi no include the singers dem inna mi bashing. Sanchez and him brotha, a think, is di boss. Mi can go on and on. Those were good music, not the crap now bout AK ova di wall, mek duppy, kill motha father baby duppy and dog etc

The get rich culture is taking ova Jt, but do u realise that any country or subset of a country where it is prevalent are always marred by voilence, poverty, lawlessness?

For me nuff a dem artist yah fi only play inna clubs. Not on the public airways. I think there was a study that showed that the babies of mothers that play a lot of soft music during there earlier years exhibited a more disciplined behavior than those that were exposed to hard music
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#151610 - 03/19/10 03:09 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: zilla]
Humble Lion
Member


Registered: 07/30/07
Posts: 680

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Heart a' love mi seh JT and zilla
heart a' love


dancehall have a lot more to offer than just kartel and movado
dancehall is a part of the culture, like it or not

it ain't going no where
all my old people dem used to guh a dancehall or 'lawn'

so since it is here to stay
i say we find a way fi preserve it, protect it

dancehall is more than the music

is the fashion
the dancing
the lingo

is a whole 'lifestyle'
one weh mek nuff people eat food and send dem pickney guh school

do i think it needs to be 'cleaned up'
yes, certain aspects
does it need to be 'cleaned up' to survive?

not necessarily

there will always be a market for gangster music

we just need fi make sure the minds that are easily influenced don't get infiltrated by too much negativity

whose responsibility??

i say the parents!
maybe the industry!

do we want to stifle 'art'? (as ugly as the lyrics are, it still is 'art')

is it life imitating art?
or art imitating life?

are the artist merely putting lyrics to what they see around them and telling a story
or are they conjuring up these evil thoughts and writing about it?

BLESS

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#151612 - 03/19/10 04:36 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Humble Lion]
jt Moderator
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Registered: 02/16/01
Posts: 10392

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everything yu say Humble lion, mi say to.. it is art imitating life but also occasionally as life is a cycle the art comes around to a point when it becomes life imitating art.. Then we all lick out, mek some noise and redress the balance...

Is who sing dah tune yah again... Tribal war... wi nuh waan nuh more ah dat.. remix... Vybez Kartel... We nuh want nuh more ah dat...

nuh get mi wrong... I did love ramping Shop... That was genius.. But when him start get carried away and keep sing bout this teenager unda age girl and all kinda madness...

If anyone know Kartel, mek him know mi naw Player Hate.. Mi just waan di yute dem fi stay awake..
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#151614 - 03/19/10 05:23 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
metro
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Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 3181
Loc: montreal canada

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 Originally Posted By: jt
everything yu say Humble lion, mi say to.. it is art imitating life but also occasionally as life is a cycle the art comes around to a point when it becomes life imitating art.. Then we all lick out, mek some noise and redress the balance...

Is who sing dah tune yah again... Tribal war... wi nuh waan nuh more ah dat.. remix... Vybez Kartel... We nuh want nuh more ah dat...

nuh get mi wrong... I did love ramping Shop... That was genius.. But when him start get carried away and keep sing bout this teenager unda age girl and all kinda madness...

If anyone know Kartel, mek him know mi naw Player Hate.. Mi just waan di yute dem fi stay awake..


'tribal war' I know a version done by John Holt .
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#151645 - 03/20/10 01:58 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: metro]
jt Moderator
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Registered: 02/16/01
Posts: 10392

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Ok... I took time to listen to a few tunes of theirs.. Movado has a starlight tune.. thats good.. i heard a vybes Kartel that was talking about sufferation... It sounded good. And as an advocate for Reggea Music and also the reggea museum... A museam that did not even mention these two artists would be criminal even if their are others out there who dont like them..

I'd have to say I have been a bit ingenuous to both of them... Not bcoz mi nuh like opera mean say it is rubbish... if yu get my meaning..

So here is a question... Would we consider a TV station crap if they showed all silly programs or would we consider the programs and producers rubbish??
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#151661 - 03/21/10 06:30 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
jt Moderator
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Registered: 02/16/01
Posts: 10392

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If singers, DJ's, poets etc are considered 'artists' then shouldn't we be blaming the promoters and media DJ's also for promoting the work of the artists that would possibly need screening for suitabilty.


But shouldn't the artists, promoters and DJ's not take more of a duty of care and research into presenting planning and promoting their shows and not just chase the money.
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#151668 - 03/21/10 08:27 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
pelepapa
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Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 4235

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Life imitating art...Art imitating life. It no really matter, because it happens both ways. Whichever way generate the most revenue ah so it ah go go. Actually it is a misnomer to refer to it as ART. A more accurate term is ACT.

From the beginning of time the 'music industry' has always been about the money and nothing has change. As a matter of fact 'the industry' continuosly punish artists who try move away from beings ACTS to being real artists in the purest sense.

Why Marley and not Tosh? Many people would seh the greens dictated that decision. The only thing that will change the current trend is when it doesn't sell anymore. No heap ah preaching nah go do it. If Kartel reform tomorrow he most likely will dropoff and another DJ would step right in and tek his place. The man no look fool fool, I kind of figure he is well aware of that. It is like the drug dealer on the corner. Dem man basically just ah milk their talent and ah tek it where they need to tek it to mek the most money.

What is the cost/benefit to reform your music to add a Barbados to your tour stop? Would your established fan base remain? After reforming your music would you still have a Barbados tour stop? Can you still command the same amount of dough now that you sound like everyone else?

It is not Barbados not allowing Kartel to play that is going to reform him. It is whether a Barbados can touch the conscience of his current fans and have them reform that will dictate whether he changes or not.

Mi love dancehall and that is basically all mi play, but for the past couple of years I've found it impossible to just sit back and enjoy the music. It is stressful playing dancehall music, particularly when you are in the company of older or younger folks. You spend more time as a cuss word censorer than enjoying the music. Maybe it's because mi only buy mix-tapes. Now I find myself listening to other kind of music and less to the new dancehall and I wonder if it is because of this trend in dancehall or the fact that I am getting older. Could be a combination of both.

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#151670 - 03/21/10 09:11 AM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
Humble Lion
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Registered: 07/30/07
Posts: 680

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the x-rated part of dancehall need to be called what it is.

ADULT ONLY CONTENT

and leave the 'other' parts of dancehall outta di passa passa

i man nuh see how listening to gully or gaza seh dem a buss all kinda gun different than watching bond..james bond actually doing it on screen

how is that different??
which worse??

when we used to grow up and a guh show a state, regal, carib theatre
dem naw let in nuh juvenile if a 'big people' show
mi nuh tink dem a do that now needa

then why are kids allowed in the dancehall

i feel seh we just need fi borrow a page from the old foot dem and guh back to the days of dances a keep a one 'lawn'
weh yu can restrict the entry of juveniles

no restrictions wid street dance

mi honestly nuh member suh much 'street dance' when mi a grow up still
a certain time like independence and dem time deh weh yuh have big street dance

other dan that yuh guh a one venue
either tropics or grove road or skateland to name a few
weh the 'gateman' dem collect
and yuh can't just get in suh

all josey did haffi do a tune bout leggo mi hand gateman, to how the security was 'rambo' style \:D

the street dance free up the juvenile dem to the x-rated content of dancehall
when in reality
di x-rated content need a 'lid' pon it and keep behind closed door out a di sight a di juvenile dem

and the video and music treated like how a normal blue movie is treated wid XXX pon it
sed suh wid di music

instead dem regulate the 'dancehall industry' and find ways fi keep the x-rated content out of the hands, and eventully minds, a di juvenile dem

di 'politician' dem a look di easy way out

suh dem just 'band aid' up the issue and ban the dj

dancehall lose
while di juveniles continue fi get a more graphic version of any 'dancehall' tune pon cable

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#151680 - 03/21/10 01:16 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Humble Lion]
jt Moderator
Moderator


Registered: 02/16/01
Posts: 10392

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I think we all understand the money sides and can see why you call it an act pelepapa... But from the discussion I more sense the ites are more concerned with what Kartel is doing for the music and not what the music is doing for Kartel.

From the basis of what his music is doing for Jamaica it has to be referred to as art. From the point of view where these artists/ ingers/ dj's/ whatever yu waan call them do all sorts of differing topics which in the reggea world could be categorised as Humble Lion did categorize them we have to recognise and accept that we can pick and chose tunes that get airplay just as you would a Micheal Jackson CD. Not all CD's can be like Bob Marley where you can listen every track back to back.

So the blame really shouldn't be put at the artists but at the people who tell us what is a hit.. For the weaker, and those that follow the trends and or are easily led they need censorship.

But that doesnt take away from the fact that artists who are chasing the money wont be held accountable for thats when it bcomes life imitating art
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#151793 - 03/23/10 07:08 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: jt]
Humble Lion
Member


Registered: 07/30/07
Posts: 680

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yes jt, a hear yuh
but before we mek the artist dem 'wholly' accountable
wi can't ignore the influence cable have pon the yute dem

i feel even more so than dancehall

maybe another topic but mi need fi bring it up

long before dancehall became the way it is today, round di early 80's
i man watch a show called assault on precinct 13
will never forget it, caw mi was a juvenile
some yute beat some shot pon a police station
dat is all mi memba
some yute surround a precinct and cut the light and beat some shot after the police dem in deh

long before gully gaza

and mi can't member nuh 'gangster' dancehall tune having an effect even similar to deh show deh

maybe i am a 'visual' learner \:\)

to me, di Bajan dem (even thinking of) banning kartel and 'freeing' up cable is basically confirming that he must be a really good writer to be able to pen lyrics and make them just as vivid as watching the actual script

Kartel lyrics influence the Bajan girl dem fi guh a di rampin' shop guh watch a blue movie pon cable before dem 'ride it like a bike'..hehe

maybe the gallis dem can confirm

but mi nuh know which woulda have more 'influence' pon di girl dem
a kartel tune or a blue movie?

mi know the show weh me watch inna di days influence me more than any tune weh mi did hear

if di Bajan dem really want prevent negative influences dem need fi target both the audio and the visual
target one alone and it look a way

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#151892 - 03/25/10 05:56 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Humble Lion]
Humble Lion
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Registered: 07/30/07
Posts: 680

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ORIGINAL DANCEHALL

a wonder if di bajan dem woulda ban dem man yah

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#151930 - 03/26/10 04:28 PM Re: Barbados shuts out dancehall [Re: Humble Lion]
jt Moderator
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Registered: 02/16/01
Posts: 10392

Offline
how much man in Jamaica would guh tek in this show???
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