Barnes did a good job for JA, and he should be given his credit. He badly wanted a job in the U.K., and he jumped at the first choice that he was given. But I think that he made a mistake in choosing a team that was in flux. Ronnie Moore, who just got the Rotherham job, had done a good at Tranmere, but the club was bound to descend into the depths, with the owner wanting to sell it. I don't think that Barnes will last more than another couple of weeks, unless there is a miraculous recovery. He will not get another managerial job in England. Perhaps one of the Caribbean nations will scoop up the change and give him a chance, because Tappa is here until the JFF can afford to replace him. The following is Steve Claridge from the BBC site:
Do you think John Barnes can turn around Tranmere Rovers' fortunes whilst still insisting on playing his attractive ideal of football, which the players seem to be unable to respond to? Graeme Moore, England
I have got nothing against John but, like everyone who has not really done the job, we do not know if he can manage. That is not to say he cannot but that might be the case.
Can he turn Tranmere round? No, not if current results are anything to go by - they have lost their last seven games.
But you have got to give him longer because he has walked into a very difficult situation, which is quite difficult for me to understand.
Firstly, I was confused as to why Ronnie Moore got the sack in the summer. He shouldn't have done. The second problem with taking the job after Ronnie is that, under him, Rovers finished seventh last season and were a point off the play-offs.
We spoke to John on BBC Radio 5 live when he took charge and he said, basically, he had been waiting for nearly 10 years for a club job. He said "if I hadn't taken this, I wouldn't have got one".
The problem with that is if it doesn't work out at Tranmere where does he go from here?
It is fine to say "I haven't been offered a job" but with the one you do get you have got to have at least some chance of success rather than a lose-lose scenario. The only way that he could follow Ronnie and be seen as being a success is to get them in the play-offs or get them up. And is that feasible, with the owner trying to get rid of them and the budget being cut?
Do not get me wrong, that does not mean they should be as bad as their results have been. I am not making excuses for John.
How long would you give him? I think he himself knows time is running out. When he starts saying "it's out of my hands, it's down to the chairman to make the decision" then you realise he knows something might happen very soon.
So he has got to get a win. If he loses his next two or three then the likelihood is he is going to be out. You do not lose nine or 10 straight games at any level of football and keep your job.
Barnes did a good job for JA, and he should be given his credit. He badly wanted a job in the U.K., and he jumped at the first choice that he was given. But I think that he made a mistake in choosing a team that was in flux. Ronnie Moore, who just got the Rotherham job, had done a good at Tranmere, but the club was bound to descend into the depths, with the owner wanting to sell it. I don't think that Barnes will last more than another couple of weeks, unless there is a miraculous recovery. He will not get another managerial job in England. Perhaps one of the Caribbean nations will scoop up the change and give him a chance, because Tappa is here until the JFF can afford to replace him. The following is Steve Claridge from the BBC site:
Do you think John Barnes can turn around Tranmere Rovers' fortunes whilst still insisting on playing his attractive ideal of football, which the players seem to be unable to respond to? Graeme Moore, England
I have got nothing against John but, like everyone who has not really done the job, we do not know if he can manage. That is not to say he cannot but that might be the case.
Can he turn Tranmere round? No, not if current results are anything to go by - they have lost their last seven games.
But you have got to give him longer because he has walked into a very difficult situation, which is quite difficult for me to understand.
Firstly, I was confused as to why Ronnie Moore got the sack in the summer. He shouldn't have done. The second problem with taking the job after Ronnie is that, under him, Rovers finished seventh last season and were a point off the play-offs.
We spoke to John on BBC Radio 5 live when he took charge and he said, basically, he had been waiting for nearly 10 years for a club job. He said "if I hadn't taken this, I wouldn't have got one".
The problem with that is if it doesn't work out at Tranmere where does he go from here?
It is fine to say "I haven't been offered a job" but with the one you do get you have got to have at least some chance of success rather than a lose-lose scenario. The only way that he could follow Ronnie and be seen as being a success is to get them in the play-offs or get them up. And is that feasible, with the owner trying to get rid of them and the budget being cut?
Do not get me wrong, that does not mean they should be as bad as their results have been. I am not making excuses for John.
How long would you give him? I think he himself knows time is running out. When he starts saying "it's out of my hands, it's down to the chairman to make the decision" then you realise he knows something might happen very soon.
So he has got to get a win. If he loses his next two or three then the likelihood is he is going to be out. You do not lose nine or 10 straight games at any level of football and keep your job.
There's no arguing with John Barnes's reputation and pedigree as one of the greatest players of his generation and Englands' connection to the greatest Jamaican footballer that has ever played the game in England; LINDBERG 'LINNDY' DELAPHENNA.
However, after giving the 'Digger' his props, it has to be said that a great player does not necessarily produce a good manager.
There must have been some reason that after the Celtic debacle no British club would touch John Barnes with a 10 ft pole for 10 years !.
He obviously didn't cut it with Burrell either, despite a winning record.
There's something about 'Digger's' personality that does not fit football management and he needs to realise that it might not be the career goal for him, despite the great player that he was.
It would be some enlightment to get Ian 'Pepe' Goodison take on all this but the 'big man' keeps his own council, and wisely so.
There's no arguing with John Barnes's reputation and pedigree as one of the greatest players of his generation and Englands' connection to the greatest Jamaican footballer that has ever played the game in England; LINDBERG 'LINNDY' DELAPHENNA.
However, after giving the 'Digger' his props, it has to be said that a great player does not necessarily produce a good manager.
There must have been some reason that after the Celtic debacle no British club would touch John Barnes with a 10 ft pole for 10 years !.
He obviously didn't cut it with Burrell either, despite a winning record.
There's something about 'Digger's' personality that does not fit football management and he needs to realise that it might not be the career goal for him, despite the great player that he was.
It would be some enlightment to get Ian 'Pepe' Goodison take on all this but the 'big man' keeps his own council, and wisely so.
I think Barnes doesn´t endear himself to people. I remember JY talking about how he basically pissed everyone off at Stewart´s auto in Kingston acting arrogant. And reading his interviews about his spending and other things sometimes I thought he needed to just shut it. But the guy was successful in charge of our team and that can´t be denied. It´s true that a great player usually doesn´t make a great manager but as a black manager you have to have been a great player to get an opportunity. It´s a shame to see so many fighting against him and shout racism on other threads. You´d think on a Reggaeboyz forum we would want Barnes a black Jamaica to succeed. While he has some support it is clear a good few are glad he is having trouble.
A great player doesn't necessarily make a good coach nor a manager. But as reds say being a great player seems to be the only dor for black hopefuls and sometimes even that is not enough.
In a higher league, Roy Keane is doing as bad but it seems like everyone is afraid fi bawl it out.. He's rubbish. I said the same thing when Keane was at Sunderland and it look like he heard bcoz 10 games later he bounced.
But alas, no one is shouting for Keane to receive the sack.
BTW. Does anyone know if the Middlesborough manager Southgate has got his coaching badge yet?
With a second chance Paul Ince seems to have turned things around from his blackburn days. But pepes see Ince as a hard man and as such like Keane seems to give respect just bcoz whereas we may pay tribute to barnes with his silky skillz but the English have never really had a love affair with Barnes. Unlike Ince he was just another blackman used b the British system. (IMO)
_________________________
They make the world so hard
There's no arguing with John Barnes's reputation and pedigree as one of the greatest players of his generation and Englands' connection to the greatest Jamaican footballer that has ever played the game in England; LINDBERG 'LINNDY' DELAPHENNA.
However, after giving the 'Digger' his props, it has to be said that a great player does not necessarily produce a good manager.
There must have been some reason that after the Celtic debacle no British club would touch John Barnes with a 10 ft pole for 10 years !.
He obviously didn't cut it with Burrell either, despite a winning record.
There's something about 'Digger's' personality that does not fit football management and he needs to realise that it might not be the career goal for him, despite the great player that he was.
It would be some enlightment to get Ian 'Pepe' Goodison take on all this but the 'big man' keeps his own council, and wisely so.
Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade, but you have obviously overlooked the challenges and obstacles that Barnes has to face in a seemingly hostile environment. This hostility has some stated before is very obvious. There are a lot of people who visit this site on a daily basis, including those feeble Rover fans. What you are doing is feeding the lions while missing the opportunity to state the obvious facts. As a Reggae Boyz supporter, I cannot be sympathetic to Rover, while throwing JB under the bus!
Until British football fans can come to grips that Black men can also be great coaches, if given the opportunity, I will continue to support Barnes until they throw him out. Do you know what it feels like walking into a hostile environment with a target on your back before taking the field? Do you know what it feels like when everyone who doesn't look like you is given reasonable opportunity to succeed, while you are pressured to give results on day 1? Did you take the opportunity to look at the team he has to work with?
Barnes may be a bad fit for that team but he is definitely not a bad coach as you are portraying it to be! Big Sam was great for Bolton but some say he was a bad fit for Newcastle; Scholari was great for Portugal but was a bad fit for Chelsea; Bora was great for some teams, but was a bad fit for Jamaica; Barnes was great for Jamaica but is a bad fit for Rovers. Sometimes all a coach need is the right opportunity with the right team.
Shoot! Not even Fergie could save that team with those players and no budget!
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
In a higher league, Roy Keane is doing as bad but it seems like everyone is afraid fi bawl it out.. He's rubbish. I said the same thing when Keane was at Sunderland and it look like he heard bcoz 10 games later he bounced.
But alas, no one is shouting for Keane to receive the sack.
Bwoy Jt I never realise til last week how bad Ipswich was doing. If it was Ince we would have known after a couple games. I liked Keane´s leadership as a player and always knew he would take up managing, but I thought he would have done better. He did well at first with Sunderland but it´s not gone well for him lately. He has a lot to learn and if he fails at Ipswich it could be hard for him to get another job in England, maybe Sir Alex´s succesor will give him a bly as Asst Manager at Man Utd and he can spring board that into the Ireland TD job someday.
Roy Keane will always be able to get jobs, don't kid yourself. He is such a hero and a leader to many that he will always be given the benefit of the doubt. Yes, it might not be an EPL job, right away, but unlike Ince and Barnes he will not have to pay the same dues. Look at Chris Hughton: the man has Newcastle leading the Championship, and playing some of their best football in years, and yet he can't get that interim tag removed. He will only last in that job until the club is sold, and a new owner brings in his own man. As we know, some are more equal than others.
JT is right to cite Southgate, because that is the egregious example of a double standard.
There's no arguing with John Barnes's reputation and pedigree as one of the greatest players of his generation and Englands' connection to the greatest Jamaican footballer that has ever played the game in England; LINDBERG 'LINNDY' DELAPHENNA.
However, after giving the 'Digger' his props, it has to be said that a great player does not necessarily produce a good manager.
There must have been some reason that after the Celtic debacle no British club would touch John Barnes with a 10 ft pole for 10 years !.
He obviously didn't cut it with Burrell either, despite a winning record.
There's something about 'Digger's' personality that does not fit football management and he needs to realise that it might not be the career goal for him, despite the great player that he was.
It would be some enlightment to get Ian 'Pepe' Goodison take on all this but the 'big man' keeps his own council, and wisely so.
Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade, but you have obviously overlooked the challenges and obstacles that Barnes has to face in a seemingly hostile environment. This hostility has some stated before is very obvious. There are a lot of people who visit this site on a daily basis, including those feeble Rover fans. What you are doing is feeding the lions while missing the opportunity to state the obvious facts. As a Reggae Boyz supporter, I cannot be sympathetic to Rover, while throwing JB under the bus!
Until British football fans can come to grips that Black men can also be great coaches, if given the opportunity, I will continue to support Barnes until they throw him out. Do you know what it feels like walking into a hostile environment with a target on your back before taking the field? Do you know what it feels like when everyone who doesn't look like you is given reasonable opportunity to succeed, while you are pressured to give results on day 1? Did you take the opportunity to look at the team he has to work with?
Barnes may be a bad fit for that team but he is definitely not a bad coach as you are portraying it to be! Big Sam was great for Bolton but some say he was a bad fit for Newcastle; Scholari was great for Portugal but was a bad fit for Chelsea; Bora was great for some teams, but was a bad fit for Jamaica; Barnes was great for Jamaica but is a bad fit for Rovers. Sometimes all a coach need is the right opportunity with the right team.
Shoot! Not even Fergie could save that team with those players and no budget!
BM and Redz,
Please, my apologies if I came accross a lambasting JB's ability as a manager/coach. That was not my intent, or to wish him anything but good luck in getting some success in his current job.
He was my hero growing up and damn ! I was the first to run up and ask for his autograph the first chance I got, which he graciously but also condecendingly gave me.
I'm referring to his personality and while I completely agree with the mentioning of the double standards that exist, that is not something new.
John Barnes major failing as a British manager so far is in trying to change the style and football culture of both the clubs he has worked at, with spectacular failure so far.
That was my most important point and the one i want the ites to focus on for a second or two.
British football, on a basic level, is still about up-and-under, scrapping and in-your-face-football, especially at the lower level.
A combination of all the factors that stood against the 'Digger' when he took the job along with him vowing and trying to change Tranmere's style of play is what ROVERS is complaining about and I agree with.
They drew yesterday so he might still 'get out of jail'.
Trust me, no one wishes John Barnes more success than I do.
When he coached Jamaica he was about to change their style to a more defensive/counterattacking style which he admitted was going to rile most of the Boyz followers, but was necessary because he did not have the players to play the style Jamaicans appreciate. Now he is changing the Rovers team to play a style for which he doesn't have the players capable of implementing and which the fans don't appreciate.
Since he doesn't mind playing both styles I would think the deciding factor would be the players at his disposal.
The only common thread between the 2 distinct styles he chose to implement is that the fans don't appreciate them. It seems like he comes in, see what style the fans appreciate and implements a different style.
I think he is taking my disdain for the fans a bit too far. God bless his heart.
Maybe The Rovers would like to take their chances with Leonardo. I mean if Barnes isn´t good enough for their presitigious team maybe Leonardo after Milan fires him. Bari looks closer to taking the points in San Siro today, I can´t believe that chance that Rivas missed.
When he coached Jamaica he was about to change their style to a more defensive/counterattacking style which he admitted was going to rile most of the Boyz followers, but was necessary because he did not have the players to play the style Jamaicans appreciate. Now he is changing the Rovers team to play a style for which he doesn't have the players capable of implementing and which the fans don't appreciate.
Since he doesn't mind playing both styles I would think the deciding factor would be the players at his disposal.
The only common thread between the 2 distinct styles he chose to implement is that the fans don't appreciate them. It seems like he comes in, see what style the fans appreciate and implements a different style.
I think he is taking my disdain for the fans a bit too far. God bless his heart.
The real difference is that, with Jamaica, his style was proving successful and he still got the boot.
With Tranmere, the results tell the tale and no one will complain if and when he gets the 'boot' there as well as no one complained with Jamaica.
Our 'Digger' just cant win, can he ?
While the BBC job didn't pay as much, I'm sure now that he's wondering, what the $$££%k have I got myself into, a TV studio was surely a safer and more comfortable place to earn my money !
When he coached Jamaica he was about to change their style to a more defensive/counterattacking style which he admitted was going to rile most of the Boyz followers, but was necessary because he did not have the players to play the style Jamaicans appreciate. Now he is changing the Rovers team to play a style for which he doesn't have the players capable of implementing and which the fans don't appreciate.
Since he doesn't mind playing both styles I would think the deciding factor would be the players at his disposal.
The only common thread between the 2 distinct styles he chose to implement is that the fans don't appreciate them. It seems like he comes in, see what style the fans appreciate and implements a different style.
I think he is taking my disdain for the fans a bit too far. God bless his heart.
The real difference is that, with Jamaica, his style was proving successful and he still got the boot.
With Tranmere, the results tell the tale and no one will complain if and when he gets the 'boot' there as well as no one complained with Jamaica.
Our 'Digger' just cant win, can he ?
While the BBC job didn't pay as much, I'm sure now that he's wondering, what the $$££%k have I got myself into, a TV studio was surely a safer and more comfortable place to earn my money !
Poor fellow !
Actually he never implemented his strategy with JA. It was something he spoke about doing in the future, but we all know that he left for Tranmere.
Has anyone heard Dwight Yorke's done an autobiography. Whilst being interviewed on BBC he said Roy Keane would make a better international manager. Roy Keane hit back saying he'll take on board comments from people in the game he has respect for and hasn't got respect for Dwight Yorke.
_________________________
They make the world so hard
You have it all wrong if you think the reason the supporters want him out is because of the colour of his skin. We have a lot of very talented black players at our club and have had a number in the past, the simple fact is he may have been ok coaching an international team that meet up once every couple of months but contolling a club team on a day to day basis takes completely different skills altogether. We concede 5 goals at Millwall on Saturday without putting up any resistance in fact we were 4-0 down after 25 minutes! We are also now out of the Johnstons Paint Trophy after getting beat by league 2 club Bury who played mostly reserves. His position is untenable and everyone will be able to see how bad we are when we play live on sky sports this coming monday. If you look at his stats this year played 11 won 2, drawn 1, lost 8 but here is the real kicker goal difference -17, the worst in English football! What I am trying to say is that with statistics such as these it is insulting that our 'feeble' fans are judging Barnes on the colour of his skin rather than on these facts is insulting.
You have it all wrong if you think the reason the supporters want him out is because of the colour of his skin. We have a lot of very talented black players at our club and have had a number in the past
While I may agree with you that his color may not be a factor here, the number of Black Players on a team is far different from the number of Black Coaches being in charge. While the former is necessary and relevant, the latter is not yet accepted or trusted.
Quote:
We concede 5 goals at Millwall on Saturday without putting up any resistance in fact we were 4-0 down after 25 minutes!
And, you still don't think the team is also at fault? I saw the game stats and there was zero shots on goal! Com'on, even a team without a coach could at least afford a shot at goal. Your goalkeeper had a better chance at scoring that your strikers. It seems like the team gave up at the first whistle.
I empathize with you and your team. I know it must be frustrating as a fan to attend these games on a regular basis, only to see your team losing each game without a fight.
However, my point of caution is that changing your coach is NOT the ultimate solution in making the team better. What you also need are better players! It would be suicidal to throw any new coach in this situation without giving them the opportunity to shop for better players. I can tell you that if this job becomes vacant, there would be no takers unless there are drastic changes to the current situation.
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
....the problem is that John Barnes inherited a “workman type” team and trying to turn them into a “silky passing” team. The sooner John realizes that it is not possible to achieve this with the current squad is the better life will be for him and the Rover fans. Barnes should consider resigning if he is not able or willing to coach a “workman type” or if he is not allowed to bring in the players that fit his strategy
....the problem is that John Barnes inherited a “workman type” team and trying to turn them into a “silky passing” team. The sooner John realizes that it is not possible to achieve this with the current squad is the better life will be for him and the Rover fans. Barnes should consider resigning if he is not able or willing to coach a “workman type” or if he is not allowed to bring in the players that fit his strategy
Well, the axe has fallen and its been discussed in this thread from all angles; he didn't get the results necessary to keep the job and its a shame but that's football for you.
So ironic that he didn't/couldn't/wouldn't stay in a job in which he was successful because a longer stint with Jamaica would have strengthened both Jamaica and himself before testing the 'shark waters' of the British professional club game again.
JB knew what he was getting into, he didn't go in with his eyes closed.
Big up the Digger, a mi balla still and good luck to him wherever his life and career takes him from here.
It´s not exactly like he walked away from Jamaica to take up Tranmere Ric. He was advised he wasn´t needed and seeing he wasn´t offered anything after winning a tournament we failed miserably in prior to his arrival, he had to look at his other options or his other option as it probably was. I keep seeing people talking like he jumped ship and abandoned a good situation in Jamaica, but in reality Jamaica was winging it with him to get corporate support and never committed to him because it was never the plan to do so regardless of results.
