All coaches should be held to the same standards. Obviously for sentimental and practical reasons some will get more leeway for failure, whether this is political or economically motivated it still exist.
With that said i believe we should not be quick to jump the gun and get on tappa's back, i'll give one major reason why. For far too long our local coaches have played second fiddle to the foreigners and this in my opinion has to come to an end. At some point we have to build our local leagues and standard of play and it very much starts with coaching and management. If we want to constantly put out the magical skillfull players we have that is fine but we also need to breed a wholistic approach to the game starting with the basics. We need tactically sound players, players who can work hard but also work smart. For years i have been saying that the USA is not as talented as our players but what do they have that we dont aside from money? They start with the basic and impart it on their players and build from the youth up. They know how to get the ball forward, to keep the ball, rotate the play and utilize their strengths. They work collectively. Most european teams do the exact same, it is not rocket science. However our style of play is the opposite bruk and shift. That era has to end.
We need to get our local coaches exposed to diff styles of play and technical and administrative aspects to the game. We dont even have proper physio therapist in the football fraternity. There is alot to do but we can start with giving our coaches a chance.
Now as it pertains to Mr. Barnes, i think alot has already been said,he was given a bucket to carry water in the caribbean cup and expected to do the same if he stayed til the gold cup. The administration has butchered Jamaican football and refused to give those who are capable the tools to do the job effectively. Time and time again they have rolled out the red carpet for brazilians and when a yard man comes around and finally has gotten some gains they botch it up again. So FAR WE HAVE HAD TWO COACHES WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THE RIGHT THING AND WERE CUT BECAUSE OF BURREL, BORA AND Barnes.
Luckily for tappa his name doesnt start with B and he doesnt have to compete with Burrel for the that title. there apparently can only be one mr B at a time.
I stated in a previous post that Tappa should be given a chance when Barnes contract was up. It should not be taken that I was unhappy with Barnes and pushing for his removal. And it certainly does not mean I am setting Tappa up for failure.
It was becoming obvious to me that the Captain would not continue to pay for a coach that was not here full time and would be sharing time with another team. That is why I pushed for Tappa to be given a shot at the job when Barnes contract expired.
I felt it was time for Tappa to be given the opportunity to fill the position for at least a year. He has paid his dues, stuck with the program sand howed that he was capable of winning with the Boyz when he got a chance.
One of the big challenges he will be faced with is the ego of Burrell who will try and dictate certain conditions Or else....we have seen it in the past.
If tappa is given a free hand to select the players in the program, he must be held accountable for those decisions. But if he is encouraged (forced) to use players based on the clubs they play for then that is another story.
If he fails so be it but at least give him a chance to succeed. Just my view on the issue
JAGGA, I think JFF financial problems may have factor into Barnes not given a longer contract.
Xy you are fighting a losing battle trying to gunbutt an headbutt everyone to accept the view investing in the local football industry is the way to go
The majority of ites have a 4 year tunnel vision to see Jam reach WC so we all can go and have a bashment in France, SAfrica or wherever the next WC kip
It's a culture ting whether it's a dance, session, party, bashie, yardman jus want flex pon a scene and nice up the area
With that in mind smart marketeers like Burrell exploit that genetic predispositioning to fall for false promises and gather fans and vendors every four years and SELL dem down a river of tears and empty pockets leaving them to watch the Hex pon TV every four years like clockwork
and yet they come back after each Disappointment and post threads of who they think is the next farin coach most worthy to assume the mantle
while the local industry stagnates
I remember proposing Jamaica skipping participating in WCQ for a WC or two and concentrate on building the local infrastructure and Jj asked "would the fans accept that?"
no but in reality they do and left much much poorer while the Brazilians investing our dollars in brazil and BFF invest the winnings from france in a tower
So easy pon di gunbutting and save u money fi di nex dance U not gonna get any converts so bro
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
X 2di Y, not following the mental slavery thing boss... le non sequitur bredrin.
No one hopes Tappa fails, even it Burrel hired mi granny for the job i would hope she succeedded. That is not the point.
We've seen this movie before, over and over and over. Tappa is just here for now because he is cheap! 2 days before the next wcq starts he will be replaced by some coach that we offer $3megs. Then what? not enough time for anyone to coach a team and so we flake out - again. Who does that serve? All this means is that we will be missing 2014. What then?
The same thing happened when CarlBrown replaced DeOlivera, then again when Downswell replaced RuxaRoni; again when tappa replaced Bora and again when Tappa replaced Simoes. Now we are here again. Burrell does not respect Tappa. Even if Tappa wins the gold cup by 10 goals he will be replaced.
Remember Carl Brown's stint, he was doing a great job...but who cares? the mental slavery you speak of seems to be coming from the top.
_________________________ Blessed are those that buck the system, they make our lives better.
Yes, Yes. The way the captain fire and hire is like a slave boss.I think he is just MENTAL.
Anyway back to the question of accountablity. All coaches should be held to the same standard....team performance and results. It is equally important to note that the pay should be comparable if we are asking the coach to achieve the standards we were looking. I hope Burrell does not destroy Tappa's love for the sport over the next year with his dictatorship attitude.
I am not sure where this redundant slavery mentality argument is coming from, especially in reference to calling JB a foreign coach. Somehow, I thought JB was a born Jamaican Black man like many of us. I guess we spin the coin whenever it suits us and flip it the other way to make a point.
No one is wishing Tappa any evil and am sure many are supportive and wish him success. I also believe he should be paid within the same level as JB since the expectations remain the same. JB was not getting much anyway so I don't think that this should be an issue for the JFF.
In terms of investing in the local football industry, I am sure everyone on this board has been harping on this for years. So don't come off looking like people are against local football development and are anti local coaches. Despite that being said, we must also be realistic and not be blinded by this Yard vs. Farin crap. We do not have the local expertise or the infrastructure available to be self sustainable at this time. So, now we are of the impression that we are such a great world footballing nation that we don't need foreign intervention and we can learn the business of the game from each other.
We have had local football coaches at every level below the senior team and what have they accomplished so far? What does this tell us? Are we sustainable on our own? Can we develop our local football and infrastructure on our own? We are not there yet!!!
There are two solutions to this merry-go-round: 1. All local coaches get properly certified internationally, where they can bring back that expertise and develop our local football. (It is key for them not to stay too long, as when they return, they will no longer be called locals but "Fariners")
2. Hire foreign experts in Jamaica to train and develop our youths and to get our local coaches properly trained and certified.
After we have accomplished either 1 and/or 2 above, then we can start brag and show off and get extremely upset when a qualified local coach is being overlooked in favor of a foreigner for any coaching position.
Just a reminder, football is not a Jamaican lifestyle, it's a pastime. Some of us are taking this thing as if the economy depends on it!
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
Jaro mi did a wonder the same thing. I saying to myself a which farin coach dem a talk bout? I thought JB was a born JAMAICAN, mi dont even a go the black part. Dem sound jus like the politicians, putting a cloth over evrybody head and them dem talk bout mental slavery. Dont u think a person who try to deny one of his own is more mentally enslaved?
_________________________
FORMER President - F.A.A.B.A.C.B(Fans Association Against the Baseless Attack on Captain Burrel)
People suffering from mental slavery are usually blind to its effects-otherwise called forin minded.
Zilla etal there are degrees to being a yaadie, Barnes is a couple degrees removed from the battle field and does not possess what it takes to make the sustainable development model work.
BM, I expect betta from yu but I understand. Keep reading and researching one day revelation will come your way. Yu done know how X tek cyber, yu attempt at whatever was just that: whatever. However, where football is concern I would not be calling on you for an unqualified opinion.
[A vine reach mi sey, de Barnes contract was a favor from one army man to another to give one army man son a face lift fe get a English Club contract. John Barnes management/coaching reputation needed a make over and Jamaican Football program was the gift horse. No real challenge just scripted warmup games and once the remake was in place, no real reason to continue]
Yu se how tings run...dats why we need sustainable development as a overall goal, not individual sustainable development with a farin accent.
People suffering from mental slavery are usually blind to its effects-otherwise called forin minded.
Zilla etal there are degrees to being a yaadie, Barnes is a couple degrees removed from the battle field and does not possess what it takes to make the sustainable development model work.
BM, I expect betta from yu but I understand. Keep reading and researching one day revelation will come your way. Yu done know how X tek cyber, yu attempt at whatever was just that: whatever. However, where football is concern I would not be calling on you for an unqualified opinion.
[A vine reach mi sey, de Barnes contract was a favor from one army man to another to give one army man son a face lift fe get a English Club contract. John Barnes management/coaching reputation needed a make over and Jamaican Football program was the gift horse. No real challenge just scripted warmup games and once the remake was in place, no real reason to continue]
Yu se how tings run...dats why we need sustainable development as a overall goal, not individual sustainable development with a farin accent.
Never expect that from you still! Hence my response! It's nice to have a clean discussion sometimes without getting personal. No love lost boss...gwaan duh you ting!
As G" seh, you don't have to gunbutt and headbutt to get people to listen.
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
Ites I can guarantee you all that Tappa will be held accountable at the highest level, no doubt about that. The gold cup will be his measuring stick. If he flops in the gold cup then he will be axe just like "Frasmoes" and "Bora the far east explorer".
Like XY I believe that Barnes ulterior motive was to use Jamaica as a launching pad to get back into english coaching. The captain himself must have known that since he only hired him for a year.
_________________________
"The heights of great men reach and kept were not attained by sudden flight..." - Henry Longfellow
In terms of investing in the local football industry, I am sure everyone on this board has been harping on this for years. So don't come off looking like people are against local football development and are anti local coaches. Despite that being said, we must also be realistic and not be blinded by this Yard vs. Farin crap. We do not have the local expertise or the infrastructure available to be self sustainable at this time. So, now we are of the impression that we are such a great world footballing nation that we don't need foreign intervention and we can learn the business of the game from each other.
We have had local football coaches at every level below the senior team and what have they accomplished so far? What does this tell us? Are we sustainable on our own? Can we develop our local football and infrastructure on our own? We are not there yet!!!
There are two solutions to this merry-go-round: 1. All local coaches get properly certified internationally, where they can bring back that expertise and develop our local football. (It is key for them not to stay too long, as when they return, they will no longer be called locals but "Fariners")
2. Hire foreign experts in Jamaica to train and develop our youths and to get our local coaches properly trained and certified.
After we have accomplished either 1 and/or 2 above, then we can start brag and show off and get extremely upset when a qualified local coach is being overlooked in favor of a foreigner for any coaching position.
Just a reminder, football is not a Jamaican lifestyle, it's a pastime. Some of us are taking this thing as if the economy depends on it!
Who wrote this? BM did not write this. Either X up to his illegal cloning tricks again or the mad poet Ras is on assignment again. But there is No Way anyone can convince mi that BM sit down and write this, this crap. I earlier proposed the building of infrastructure to establish the local football industry on a firm footing.
And here comes the troublemakers, X or his Green Beret spy, Ras, not sure which one yet, countering with hiring and certifying coaches! So right off the bat I know is an infiltration setup.
Anyway let’s indulge in this for a brief moment.
Where will the hires experts (1)train the coaches to be and (2) train and develop our youths?
On hill an gully bruk foot fields? Are we switching to Lawn Billiards. 8 ball in the gully by the corner flag?
Can 21st century football exist Solely on hiring coaches and everything else absorb thru osmosis?
Is that how they build infrastructure? Heh heh heh
What nonsense and being a nice guy I still took time off to reply.
Then here comes the “Quote of the Summer”
Quote:
We do not have the local expertise or the infrastructure available to be self sustainable at this time. So, now we are of the impression that we are such a great world footballing nation that we don't need foreign intervention and we can learn the business of the game from each other.
Don’t laugh. Seriously have you ever read crap like this anywhere else.
If foreign intervention is hiring a washed up Brazilian coach every three years to Train 18-24 boyz, then bring it on.
Quick Cappo. Two Brazil Air first class tixs for BM to fly guh Brazil and bring back the Professor for his Final Tour.
Then hear this!
Quote:
We have had local football coaches at every level below the senior team and what have they accomplished so far?
Who was the coach that took our under-19 or 20 team to WC finals in Argentina? I don’t know I am just asking.
Do our local coaches get the support they need and the practice matches for the teams they manage? I don’t know, just asking.
Sadly, the mindset remains, rebuild it every four years.
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
Actually, G, I am quite appalled at your lame response. Is this the G that I know? Must be losing your skills! Where in my statement did I mention hiring a foreign coach? I thought the term expert could mean professional tutors, trainers, skilled administrators, physical & tactical experts in the sport.
My apologies sir, I did not know that all the fields in Jamaica were hill & gully bruk foot fields. Then why the hell are we talking about football? I also thought Football instructions were given in classrooms as well - or maybe you just think sitting on a rock in the gully is the only way?
There so many facilities I know in Jamaica that can be used for any type of training and development. GC Foster, UWI, UTech, Trelawney Sports Complex, etc.
So far you have not given any concrete response on how you plan or intend to build and sustain football in Jamaica other than hiring a local coach. Is that your solution?
What I would expect from the G I know is how you would move forward in establishing the infrastructure, building the foundation and moving forward into sustainable development so we can rid ourselves of ‘Farin ‘coaches. Lay off the gun butting and head butting and come with constructive arguments.
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
some a dese cats always come wid the circumloqution and ...
cho...
anyway, it is a smokescreen to suggest that hiring tappa is intended for some greater goal of local football development. It is not. So i guess if one disagrees that it is then one would be against local football development. Hehe. silly. Football development should be a different programme and funded differently but i guess that would requre the ability to chew gum and walk at the same time.
the goal of the national team is to qualify and play in the world cup every 4 years so having a 4 year plan is not a bad start especially when you don't have a plan at all. Or, let me see, i guess we are now on a 8 to 12 year plan by hiring Tappa?
Barnes is easily the best Jamaican born player ever(oh hell, hear deh now - Dango D, Gootu T, brucka Foot sma D )... and when the prodigal son comes home to help (and apparently has something to contribute) open arms is customary but not in Jamaica. We are crabs and the only crab getting out a dis is clibing the same barrell walls as me, but him cyaan get out b4 me, awhoa! Hehehe.
In some f@cked up kind of way, maybe we do deserve BURRELL - crab arbiter extraordinaire.
Edited by ddread (06/10/0907:27 PM)
_________________________ Blessed are those that buck the system, they make our lives better.
some a dese cats always come wid the circumloqution and ...
cho...
anyway, it is a smokescreen to suggest that hiring tappa is intended for some greater goal of local football development. It is not. So i guess if one disagrees that it is then one would be against local football development. Hehe. silly. Football development should be a different programme and funded differently but i guess that would requre the ability to chew gum and walk at the same time.
the goal of the national team is to qualify and play in the world cup every 4 years so having a 4 year plan is not a bad start especially when you don't have a plan at all. Or, let me see, i guess we are now on a 8 to 12 year plan by hiring Tappa?
Barnes is easily the best Jamaican born player ever(oh hell, hear deh now - Dango D, Gootu T, brucka Foot sma D )... and when the prodigal son comes home to help (and apparently has something to contribute) open arms is customary but not in Jamaica. We are crabs and the only crab getting out a dis is clibing the same barrell walls as me, but him cyaan get out b4 me, awhoa! Hehehe.
In some f@cked up kind of way, maybe we do deserve BURRELL - crab arbiter extraordinaire.
School dem ya Ddread!
Some guy a run up him mouth talking bout the hiring of Tappa is football development? And, foreign experts are not good enough for Jamaica. The same guy who laughed at the notion that it is silly to get our coaches properly qualified so that they can compete on a level playing field. Oh, I forgot, there are no level playing fields in Jamaica - just bruk foot ones.
Somehow, I thought that the main reason countries have national football teams were to compete every 4 years in the world cup. I didn't know our team was designed to be in the permanent development stage.
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
Actually, G, I am quite appalled at your lame response. Is this the G that I know? Must be losing your skills! Where in my statement did I mention hiring a foreign coach? I thought the term expert could mean professional tutors, trainers, skilled administrators, physical & tactical experts in the sport.
My apologies sir, I did not know that all the fields in Jamaica were hill & gully bruk foot fields. Then why the hell are we talking about football? I also thought Football instructions were given in classrooms as well - or maybe you just think sitting on a rock in the gully is the only way?
There so many facilities I know in Jamaica that can be used for any type of training and development. GC Foster, UWI, UTech, Trelawney Sports Complex, etc.
So far you have not given any concrete response on how you plan or intend to build and sustain football in Jamaica other than hiring a local coach. Is that your solution?
What I would expect from the G I know is how you would move forward in establishing the infrastructure, building the foundation and moving forward into sustainable development so we can rid ourselves of ‘Farin ‘coaches. Lay off the gun butting and head butting and come with constructive arguments.
So that is your vision of a corpus of establishing the infrastructure for local football development?
Apparently the words Infrastructure and Training are synonyms for you.
I get the gist. Find the best 6-7 or seven fields with nearby facilities for a wikind training and development program. Listen this is outside your ballpark B, but nice try.
Let me say also this comparison of Tappa vs. Barnes is really a comedy.
When Barnes came on board there was talk of Tappa Vs. Barnes That was shot down under the consensus of Barnes and Tappa working together to make Jamaica better.
What was Tappa's role since Barnes stepped into the saddle? Assistant Clipboard Manager No, no Official Distributor of Barnes emails to the squad when Barnes was in ingland?
Now b4 Barnes could eevn reach his hotel room to pack for his fly out the hypocrisy is started by who?
Originally Posted By: Big Mountain
I am sure a lot of Ites who have been calling for Tappa are now overjoyed at his inevitable appointment as the next coach of Jamaica.
Now the question is; Will Tappa be held at the same level of accountability as Barnes? So, now can we say with the same level of responsibility that nothing less than a semi-final berth for Jamaica is expected? Anything less, should be considered a failure for Tappa. After all, to be fair, Barnes was given the same level of expectation.
Since many are afraid to say it, CONGRATULATIONS to you Mr. Barnes!! You have served us well and you have been the best coach to lead Jamaica for years. Nice way to stamp your seal of approval by beating a team we have not beaten in over 40 years. We wish you all the best and much success!
Since Tappa is being compared at the same level of Barnes, I expect the unbeaten run to continue and nothing less than a semi-final berth in the Gold Cup. Or, are we already preparing excuses?
There you have it. All this time we were led to believe it was Tappa and Johnny pulling together
Now the great Big Montain starts the comparison of what to expect of a Tappa era sans Barnes
All this time from Barnes' first day Tappa was drinking coconut on the beach down a Runaway Bay dat bwoy u si man
Talk about disingenuous and now wanna turn roun an crucify I for speaking up for buiding an infrastructure that will last for hundreds of years that in itself will lay a solid foundation for not only qualifying but competing with the best in the world beyond first rounds, for that the label is attached anti-open arms heh heh
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
some a dese cats always come wid the circumloqution and ...
cho...
anyway, it is a smokescreen to suggest that hiring tappa is intended for some greater goal of local football development. It is not. So i guess if one disagrees that it is then one would be against local football development. Hehe. silly. Football development should be a different programme and funded differently but i guess that would requre the ability to chew gum and walk at the same time.
the goal of the national team is to qualify and play in the world cup every 4 years so having a 4 year plan is not a bad start especially when you don't have a plan at all. Or, let me see, i guess we are now on a 8 to 12 year plan by hiring Tappa?
Barnes is easily the best Jamaican born player ever(oh hell, hear deh now - Dango D, Gootu T, brucka Foot sma D )... and when the prodigal son comes home to help (and apparently has something to contribute) open arms is customary but not in Jamaica. We are crabs and the only crab getting out a dis is clibing the same barrell walls as me, but him cyaan get out b4 me, awhoa! Hehehe.
In some f@cked up kind of way, maybe we do deserve BURRELL - crab arbiter extraordinaire.
Dread this is an honest mistake on my part. I totally forgot that the generals and captains of local football are suffering from Infrastructure Erectile Dysfunction.
My bad, Look how many times the visionary has laid out the Four Year Repeat Rebuild and Teardown Viagratize Program
Jamaica cannot whistle and ride at the same time
Other countries engaged in that madness have their waterloo coming
Yes of course you, BM, the gov't mechanic and the gang of 100 deserve Burreal no doubt about that
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
Nuh worry yourself G! You and I have the same intentions of building a solid foundation for Jamaica's football. Our only difference is that we are both looking at it from different angles. You are coming in from the infrastructure end and I am coming in from the training & development end, using existing facilities.
You and I both know that there is no way the JFF is going to build any infrastructure. Look at the current FIFA Project that can't even get off the ground, even though the funds were made available to do so. If our football development was solely based on building infrastructure, we will never get off the ground. We all have been waiting in vain for this to happen.
Also, some people are of the impression that the hiring of a local coach will bring in savings that can be used to build infrastructure. We all know that any savings generated from under-paying a local coach will just flow towards covering other inefficiencies of the JFF.
That being said, I would not be ashamed to ask these European guys for assistance, since our local football bosses have consistenlty failed us. Take a look at those successful projects in Western African countries - all foreign intervention.
_________________________
"Go tell it on the Mountain!"
When leaders in general stay focus on short term goals it always end up like Enron. Takes time sometimes but it will come. But do the fans for the most part care, no! They don’t know better. The industry can be built up from age-group category to ‘real pro’ with the leader getting the most practical 10, 15 and 20 year plans in place and using his bully pulpit to push it through.
We have sponsors who come forward and put up every WCQ Campaign. Here is a great opportunity, one of many, to fuse the WCQ campaign with the 10-20 year plans by having any sponsor taking a major role in the WCQC have to commit to also participating in the 10 or 20 plan. The journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step.
It is not too complex but close minded leaders, short sightedness and laziness prevails
_________________________
One possible reason why things are not going according to plans is there never was a plan
I am not sure about a 20 year plan per se for a football team. No sense devising a "plan" for the 2030 wold cup team... kind of nutty. We NEED a plan for 2014 but what we need for 2030 is a vision, very different things.
It makes sense to look at what we have and separate things that are different into different categories. One way to look at what we have is that we have national football teams and we have local football development. They are really different things even though there may be dependencies and synergism the essence of those 2 things are different and in our case it is best thought of as being different.
It is possible to have, for example, a senior team comprising entirely of foreign based players (which is not too far fetched since we are very close to that scenario right now). National teams are simply the collection of eligible players regardless of where they are based. One may argue that it is not an ideal situation to be in or that it is ideal to have the local league as the sole source for national team but that is unrealistic given the state of local football and economic realities. Our top local players will be recruited to foreign based leagues absent adequate alternatives. What is disappointing is when good prospects are recruited away by bush leagues and get ruxified as they are used then discarded without any development. We should be able to provide better options.
Local football development is the advancing of the level of play in local school and club football. It is well and often argued that we have relatively decent primary and secondary football and that what we lack is tertiary football development. I agree with that analysis and have pushed that argument for almost 10 years on this site. Does this means that there is no room for improvement? Hardly. In fact I think one thing we should focus on is advancing the level of high school football play by mandating certification of coaches and having teams play more international games at that level. As crazy as it may sound, this is really the best prospect for advancing local football right now, to advance secondary school football. I go to penn relays every year and get to see first hand the level of recruitment that occurs there and amount of opportunities granted to our track athletes to tertiary education and development while our football athletes languish and stunted in poor unprofressional environments post high school.
Local football development is also, obviously, about professionalizing our football leagues but this has challenges on many levels. For one, fan support has been meager at best in local football and it takes money to professionalize a league. The challenges for a professional league is primarily a business challenge but the business case appears weak. I guess the government could take it over but that would just be a money sink and the last thing the Jamaican government needs right now is another way of bleeding money. The government can surely help with advancing high school though since that should fall under education but without the ability to adequately provide and fund a professional league we are stuck with a bush league farm with an occasional gem that makes it to the big leagues. Put a 20 year plan on that and you are still stuck with a bush league farm.
I had propose, a while back, to advance professional Caribbean football by creating carifootball super league. I still think that has merits, it also has it's challenges but the merits and potential benefits are huge and not just to football. In 20 years a carifootball super league could produce world beaters instead of the “might make it to the hex” that we get right now.
The point I am making is that the senior national team is just that, the senior national team and should be treated as such. The goal of the national senior team is to make it to the word cup every 4 years. Local football development is something else, don't conflate and confuse the two.
_________________________ Blessed are those that buck the system, they make our lives better.
